I got it !!!! Oestrogel I really got it !!!

[MabelsMam]

After my previous thread on the last 10 years of my existence, I can't say life because it hasn't been a life, and seeing Davina Mccalls programme on Menopause, I finally realised that I didn't infact have persistent depressive disorder, severe anxiety, agraphobia, or even Fibromyalgia... i was bloody menopausal!!!
Today I saw a menopause specialist, my anxiety was so bad I nearly cancelled twice... ' what if I get brushed off a hypochondriac?
or a mad women with massive mental health issues ? She refused me hrt due to my history of blood clots ? Or burst into tears and couldn't speak?
But I went and I'm so glad I did ... I'm not crazy, depressed or lost cause .... I'm bloody menopausal and have been since a full hysterectomy 10 years ago.
I shouldn't have been given 9 different anti depressants because each one didn't help, I didn't need 3 psychiatrists sending me to at least 6 therapists ... I needed HRT !!!
TODAY is the first day of the rest of my life ... I cried, and laughed and came out armed with prescriptions foe Oestrogel, Vagifem and a follow up appt in 3 months for testosterone... finally I found someone who was on the ball with menopause and who in fact was horrified I'd been in surgical menopause for 10 years without any help at all...
Surgical menopause is horrific, surgical menopause without hrt is criminal... 22nd Sept 2022 I restart my life, my hormones and my happiness..... never give up !!
Thank you all for your kind words on my previous thread I wanted to update you all on my appt and ill add to my journey with HRT as it goes along 🙏

I'd say so or lack of education ' I find it shocking that during training to become a GP that ' menopause isn't a mandatory subject to study - its an optional module '
This needs changed and quickly - puberty, childbirth are covered so why not Menopause ?

@MabelsMam Thank you! I like you can attest that surgical menopause is very tough. I have rarely - if ever - come across anyone who has sailed through it without HRT or indeed needed HRT long term.

I also (dare I say) have actually come across women who think because they've had a hysterectomy and have in fact retained their ovaries that they are in surgical menopause. It's actually surprising how often this happens! To those individuals- trust me. You would DEFINITELY know if you were indeed in surgicsl menopause (I do realise some women's ovaries fail after hysterectomy and that they can have sudden onset of menopausal symptoms too).

I am guessing the poster who said they had no problems were post menopause by a few years before they had surgery? That's the only way I can think that they might have had no symptoms (or maybe the symptoms they do have, they don't recognise as being related to the surgery).

No, not at all, I had a full radical hysterectomy including removal of ovaries, many years before I would have been menopausal , and when I arranged a doctors appointment to discuss if I needed HRT I was told "if it aint broke, don't fix it" and as it certainly wasn't broke, I didn't attempt to fix it.

I am sorry for the people who have suffered, it sounds really tough. A couple of my friends have had a difficult menopause.

But please don't spread this misinformation about a surgical menopause always being difficult. It is for some unlucky people. And it is a breeze for many. In fact, from the information I have seen it is often easier than a natural menopause. And when people ask me how my menopause was, and I say "great, I never felt better", the response is often, "o, full hysterectomy, you don't know how lucky you are to have had it that way". This response comes from HCPs as well as others!

Absolutely agree@SebastianFlytesTrousers 👏 - it's bad enough to be undermined by doctors who don't recognise the effect of surgical menopause without being told you're scaremongering by someone lucky enough not to have suffered the way many women do when not given hrt after full hysterectomy.
My story is not unique, and sadly alot of women suffering as I did do take their own lives because they don't get listened too or the help needed after surgical menopause so to play it down as the OP did I found offensive... don't we all wish we'd "sailed through it without hrt " I wish to hell I did instead of exsisting in a permanent nightmare for 12 years.
I will continue to tell my story purely to help other women who may be feeling the way I did and not understanding what's happening and feeling completely hopeless.
So please don't try to make me feel bad to not having the happy transition through surgical menopause that you ( OP) had.

I am not trying to make you feel bad, and I am not trying to minimise what you went through.

I am pointing out it isn't universal, or even expected to feel that bad because of a surgical menopause.

I am sorry you did.

But thousands of women will be gearing up towards hysterectomies across the country right now, and some of them might be unnecessarily frightened by reading this thread.

It might be hard. It might be easy. Just like a natural menopause

Well I don't know where you get your information from because my Menopause specialist told me that ' surgical menopause is far more intense and severe than normal menopause and that going through it without hrt is horrific"
So consider yourself one of the lucky few !
But do not try to belittle others who had the most horrific time purely because you didn't!
Surgical menopause by the very definition isn't easy and to pretend it is doesn't do those suffering any favours - we are all aware every person is different but that shouldn't undermine the suffering of those who get hit badly ....
Imagine thinking its all a bed of roses and yo be hit by the lack of hormone truck and wonder what is happening to you ????

@GreenRaven Ahh, I see! You had your surgery years ago - before women were informed of the long term risks of cardiovascular disease, dementia and osteoporosis that are very real after having had ovaries removed pre - and post - menopsuse. I have no idea who your HCP's are, but they obviously need to update their training. And I'd get a DEXA scan done if I were you - osteoporosis is silent and you won't know until you suffer a non stress fracture (hopefully not a hip, as that can be devastating).

N.B. For all women who can't take HRT, I truly feel for you. Be sure your risk has been properly assessed and that your team if cancer related are doing all they can to assist with your wellbeing in the short and long term regarding menopause related symptoms.

I stumbled across your thread, MabelsMam and it is inconceivable that you were allowed to go through what you have without effective medical help. I'm so pleased for you that you have this now and have a menopause specialist to advocate for you. All women should have this.

I have Oestrogel (2 pumps a day) and Provera (4 x 10mg a day) to stop the crazy bleeding every fortnight. I think ssd asked you about bleeding? I know that not all women have the same.

I hope your DEXA scan is positive and that you're not too far depleted. I've been doing weight training for about six months now to help my bones and I'm really enjoying it. If it's an option for you I highly recommend it.

Anyway, congratulations, MabelsMum, I'm very happy that you're now properly 'in the system' and getting what you need.

Thank you for your concern, My bone scans and heart assessments have always shown I am in absolutely perfect condition in these respects.. I do take vitamin D and calcium, this was recommended by the doctor I originally spoke to about HRT. yes, he was well aware of these issues, as they have been known about for decades.

So many posters so desperate to find out I am seriously ill in some way 😂I am sorry to disappoint you I am fit and strong and run marathons. You might be relieved to hear I have had cancer - those that NEED me to be ill, for some agenda of your own - hence the radical hysterectomy.

I also take hormone SUPRESSANTS, for this reason - and know many other women in this situation, through hospital, support groups and so on, and again, many women are absolutely fine on them, some struggle.

@GreenRaven I'm sorry to hear about your cancer diagnosis, but no one 'needs' you to be ill, that's just being dramatic for the sake of it.

I'm glad you're doing well - please share with us your wellness regime because blimey, running marathons whilst on aromatase inhibitors? My SIL works at a large NHS cancer unit here in Scotland and can attest that joint pain is a severe issue for so many of the ladies on AI's. If you have some tips to share, I'd gladly pass them on as she has a whole line of ladies who are begging their oncologists to take them off AI's as they can no longer cope, despite risking a reoccurrence.

If I were to take your post at face value, I would tell your sister-in-law to encourage her patients with the information that for more than 3/4 of patients, joint pains, however severe, are temporary, and most patients will get through them in 3-6 months, and say I am surprised she doesn't know this, if this is her area of expertise?

A friend at work had a hysterectomy and wasn't given any HRT advice....I was absolutely shocked, especially as family history of osteoporosis. She's now on HRT but it took months.

@@GreenRaven I messaged my SIL for clarification. Yes - she's a breast cancer care nurse at The Beatson in Glasgow. She tells me some aromatase inhibitors seem to be tolerated better than others and it's very individual - and that not all joint pain resolves in all patients. Another huge issue is long lssting vasomotor symptoms and unfortunately there is nothing exciting to tell her patients just yet about Fezolinetant roll out at the moment or if indeed it'll be suitable for this group of women (disappointing indeed if it turns out it isn't).

I was indeed rather flustered by your reply earlier to the OP and must apologise as I've had a particularly nasty time since coming off NHS presribed estrogen implants so am feeling rather raw at the moment. I genuinely would value your input as to how you coped - particularly was your mood/sleep/weight affected? I think my having gone crashing down from what was a very.high level to nothing is what has really causes my problem as the implant I was given was definitely higher than what I was producing from my ovaries myself naturally prior to my surgery.

Thank you for your post. I read it earlier, and have been thinking hard. I am really sorry, but I can't think of anything at all I can suggest to make menopause easy. I have no idea at all why some women sail through, and others go through hell.

I mean, there must be reasons, but God knows what!

Here's anything about my history you might reasonably ask, but I don't think there is anything unusual here-

started periods at 14,
POS,
some difficulties conceiving,
never took the pill,
successful pregnancies and breast feeding,
Vaginal births
extremely heavy periods always, but thankfully not painful, often made me anaemic,
very average diet-not great, not terrible,
Mild PMT, getting a bit sweaty and a bit tearful for a couple of days maybe
I am an unusually active person, walking cycling to work many miles, etc, but I don't think excessively active
sleep - I have always woken up at night once or twice, and like this. I miss those snuggled up lazy thinking times if I sleep straight through

I don't think there is anything in there that might account for it - especially as these things are not necessarily true for other "sailers" I know - maybe I will start a thread to do a straw poll to see if people who never took the pill have an easier menopause, but I don't see why it would - it is just possibly the only slightly unusual thing in the list, for my generation.

You ask about mood, sleep, and weight after the hysterectomy

Mood improved, because I was very pleased not to be dealing with those monster heavy periods any more, and not paying out for all that sanpro

weight improved too, I was able to stay on a healthy diet all the time, whereas all my life I had binged every month around my period.

Sleep did not change, I am happy with the way I sleep, and happy that I always have woken once or twice a night, and had a nice quiet thinking time.

@GreenRaven Thank you so much for taking the time to post something of your history, I really appreciate it. I never took birth control either (just have the one, lovely son).

I think in my case, it was the estrogen implants that have really messed me up. The doses are relatively high - they peak quickly, fluctuate throughout their course and then drop quite suddenly after 6 months. It took two insertions of these to find this out and the whole experience was truly awful.

And then of course there is the pressure from the media, menopause 'influencers' (celebs) and private menopause doctors to be on HRT. I really should know better and listen to my own body, but have been thoroughly swept up in it all. I was discussing with my husband last night who is very supportive and he says he thinks I need to take a step back from it all for my sanity.

I think a straw poll would be a really good idea - maybe it might show a trend? You've given me a lot to think about and I thank you - it was very much needed as I've been frantically spiralling over all this thinking that I have to get back on HRT at all costs, despite knowing deep down that I had an awful time on it (I'm terrifed of any fluctuations now, even with a patch, gel or whatever).

I agree! I was googling looking for some support and others experience as I too was pushed into a medical menopause and had a full hysterectomy due to stage 4 Endometriosis. I was given a patch the Evoril Conti and was told that I had to stay on a esotrogen and progetsrogen one to inhibit the endo coming back and that I would be seeing a hormono / menopause specialist . It didnt happen . Ive had all of the things that have been mentioned above and its horrible. REally feel so lost with it sometimes and the no sleep magnifys it all! Have been prescribed oestregn gel today - 1 pump to start and HOPEFULLY my Gp said that she will find /make the referrel to the menopause specialist, but yes I was left for 6 months with no support whatsoevr and had to really push my gp to organise for my hrt to be looked at ... its so bad.

so YES please do!!!! share share share all experiences of medical menopausse and the journey of getting the hrt right. Its IMPORTANT!!

This discussion thread has really helped me today so much. I feel less alone, I feel understood I feel empathy for others that are going through it too . It makes it easier to cope with when you see htat its not just you and others are also struggling with it. IN no way is that some sort of scare tactic ??? .. which btw makes nosense at all. But this is a support for women in this situation. And again is important, and helped to ground me and lowered my anxiety a bit reaing through this thread.

so THANKYOU ladies !!!!!!!!!! We are Meonpause warrior Queens!!!!

xoxo a fellow menopause warrior queen xx