'Menopause awareness' in the workplace?

[WinterDeWinter]

Hello - I'd really like to see what people thought of this. I'm in a medium-sized third sector organisation and I've been asked to oversee a project to increase 'menopause support and awareness' beginning with a consultation. I'm feeling a bit stumped/resistant and I'm not quite sure why.

If I'm honest I'm not completely convinced that this will be more than a box-ticking / PR exercise, and I'm really unwilling to be the box ticker!

I also worry that it could backfire and that while the (higher than usual number of) 40s/50s women in the organisation would appreciate meaningful accommodations, not all will appreciate the spotlight being on them and some might even find it actively intrusive and unpleasant.

For example, we also employ a higher than average number of young-ish men - would the 'awareness training' be compulsory for all the young men and if so how would it feel to be a menopausal woman in the room?!

I am probably overthinking but I thought I would ask if anyone had experience of anything menopause-related in the workplace and if so, what has worked/not worked? If not, what measures would you want me to make sure went out for consultation if I was your colleague? How would you want this to be approached? It feels fraught with danger!

I think it's unnecessary myself. I have endometriosis which causes pain, but I'd be absolutely mortified if they started mandatory training on women's menstrual issues (school is the best place for that). Likewise I imagine many men have prostate issues, but wouldn't particularly enjoy mandatory training on male urinary symptoms. They might feel that women are assuming they've got prostate problems every time they pop to the loo and feel embarrassed. In case of the menopause, I would be worried that if attention was brought to it through mandatory training, every time I was assertive in a professional way, people would accuse me of being menopausal and stroppy.

Tachos “Clearly women who haven't suffered badly just don't get it.”

no, that’s not the issue. The issue here is some of us want to keep that stuff as private as possible. So a direct line manager might know but that’s it. I have had to call in sick due to insomnia but just said I’d had no sleep , which was true.

im not going to lead a protest against menopause training. But I do think raising awareness of it will increase workplace prejudice about women. There’ll be no life stage left where we aren’t seen as a problem. And no one needs a committee to discuss fans!

PS flooding at work can be a problem at any age. I had more of that when I was young. Generally workplaces need to be more discreetly aware that some people might have bladder or bowel or female issues that cause them to need a loo more often.

I’ve been upfront about my peri.
It fucked with my head something dreadful. Couldn’t sleep, came to work one morning with a swollen eye (just eye dryness gone wrong), anxiety through the roof, needed to go and change my underwear etc. I was really struggling to focus and do my job properly, which is really unlike me.
I put two and two together and asked for time for a GP appointment and a ‘grace’ period to allow the HRT to work.

I told my line manager, accidentally a woman in her 50s. Her attitude was: well, we all go through it, put up with it, it shouldn’t affect work.

From this point of view, I think more awareness/protection is needed. I’m a grown up woman, I don’t need a PowerPoint on menopause, but if I tell you I’m struggling and that I need a bit of support, it should be recognised, just like mental health.

I sorted my shit out, when I struggled with the dosage I called in sick, but didn’t say what was wrong, I said I’m not we’ll and I’m under the GP’s, because of my manager’s lack of understanding and support. Once I was back on track, I went and got a promotion in a different department. And because now I’m ‘the boss’, I’m really supportive and upfront about my own struggles.

I think the main problem is that women have been expected to just shut up and put up with it and we need to raise awareness and normalise menopause.

I think it’s great to have awareness, even if that means that the person who needs adjustments can feel like they are able to request these without feeling inferior.
I have seen some dreadful bullying by female managers of those colleagues who ask for adjustments due to this dreadful “ put up and shut up” attitude some people have. Sometimes simple adjustments will make that person struggling more productive. Sometimes people really cannot do their normal role without adjustments.
I am thankful that so far I’ve not had symptoms I can’t work through but I appreciate that is not the case for many.

But I do think raising awareness of it will increase workplace prejudice about women.

I disagree, hopefully it will increase support for those who need it. If some people want to keep their problems private that's also fine but the option of support should be there. In my job it wouldn't really be possible to keep things like flooding or intense sweating private as we work in close contact. I suppose working in a medical field for me it's just biology and I can't see why you wouldn't talk about it, I can see it might be completely different in a corporate environment.
My teenage boys know all about the menopause and all my friends talk openly about it so hopefully the next generation will have more awareness.

I'm in my 50s and don't want to be regarded as merely a product of my hormones, but there are people who suffer dreadfully and it's quite right they are supported.
However I think women should be supported all through their working life as well- some people get dreadful periods and have a range of hormonal issues and it would be nice if all this was taken into account as well. Women's health awareness training might be better as it would include menopause and yet avoid the stigma of targeting one group at a certain age.

I have a friend who is just 40 and is menopause champion for her work and I have had to tell her that her constantly diagnosing everyone she knows with menopause because she has had a bit of training is likely to lose her friends quickly.

Look at menowell. They offer a corporate resource package so you can outsource the support by providing access to this for those who want it and tick your boxes.

This needs to be handled carefully so it doesn't lead to discrimination against menopausal women.
I'm 50, post-menopausal, and had/have no symptoms. The last thing I'd want is my manager assuming I'm not on the ball, due to the menopause.
I don't want my personal/home life to impact work at all (I've toddlers, while working more than full time).

Thinking of the big picture is it not just another factor which requires employers to understand that as human beings we sometimes need flexibility in our working life.

Menopause, periods, cancers, long Covid, even migraines sometimes need to be approached with sensitivity and understanding. Menopause gets the attention as it will impact a large proportion female employees and appears to be the current theme of choice, but there should be an overarching policy to cover a wide range of medical conditions and disabilities.

My GP is the one who I ought to be discussing this with rather than colleagues, unless they want a rant about lack of medical support.

Great to raise awareness but there’s a fine line between raising awareness and male social conditioning to u sermons women, and I fear it will become another stick to beat women in in the workplace, like taking maternity leave was in mine. Mind you, women can be bitchy to each other over weaknesses, too. I suppose.

It is important, because women in the age bracket most likely to be affected are currently the biggest demographic in the workplace, and some women end up not working as a result of their symptoms. So there is a potential financial impact, which is why it's currently the in-thing.

There are stats available on all this. There are also guidelines for possible accommodations with the TUC and other organisations.

I think it should be like pregnancy in that not everyone will need support, but if someone does have severe symptoms, then there should be support and protection and adjustments made, just as you do an assessment for risks in pregnancy and can't sack a woman if her symptoms stopping her work are down to pregnancy.

I do think there's a risk of discrimination - despite legislation, we know that a lot of women lose their jobs or don't get considered for promotion etc because of pregnancy. But I would expect the sort of places that happens will already be biased against women, with or without policies in place. But depending on the workplace, there may well be easy adjustments that can be made, and many people won't need anything at all, or only small changes that can make it all easier.

So far, (I'm 50,) my symptoms have been heavy and irregular periods, which are easier to deal with when WFH, but I know others have struggled much more. I'm the only woman in my department, but I was never secretive about periods - I didn't put out bunting or anything, but sometimes I'd get a tampon from my desk drawers when I could have been seen, and if they did, no one dropped dead of shock, though i suspect just doing it matter of factly meant no one noticed. Most of my colleagues have wives around my age, so they should have some awareness of potential symptoms. I tell them to get their prostates checked, too, as my father died of prostate cancer before retirement. Obviously it has to come up in conversation, like if they complain their bladders can't cope with drinking lots of pints any more; I wouldn't mention it out of the blue.

Oh FFS wish there was an edit button.
*male social conditioning to weaken women

Speaking as a 50-something female, I would view this as patronising & sexist if introduced in my workplace.

Maybe the really supportive thing is to create an atmosphere where it's ok to talk about menop symptoms IF you have them & want to talk about them or ask for something. I've had colleague announce she needed the windows open for cold air suddenly (she said why, hot flash). That request should no more be a big deal than a very pregnant woman saying she'd like to be seated during a long meeting. or colleague with young children asking people to give them a longer simpler explanation due to bad sleep the night before.

But some PG women don't need a seat, are fine, may even prefer to stand to keep blood flowing. Plenty of ppl with young children sleep well enough. Make it easy to ask for things we need, rather than make it sound like we're all afflicted by (peri)menop. That should be the tone & objective of any menop-awareness activity imho.

I think your misunderstanding what’s being offered. No one is saying that women need to discuss their own symptoms in the work environment or make this in any way about them. It’s about training line managers so that when you have that discrete conversation you mentioned, they are able to deal with it sensitively and appropriately. The training is surely for exactly the scenario you describe. And I’m sure an important part of that training is emphasising that this doesn’t make middle-aged women less valuable - many of them will have no problems that affect their work, and those that do can be supported through it to remain productive.

I think it’s very similar to pregnancy. Adequate pregnancy and maternity support can lead to some increased prejudice in the work place in a way we may not see if we were like the US and there was no obligation to provide maternity cover. But overall it’s crucial to support women in the work place - otherwise women get pushed out and either leave the workforce or don’t progress as they should (which of course does still happen, but much less than it would it it won’t illegal).

"Clearly women who haven't suffered badly just don't get it.”
I've experienced all the symptoms you describe from my 40s onwards, including a decline in my mental health, but your saying on a site predominantly used by women, that they 'just don't get it' what chance have you got in the wider workforce.
You can't make compassion compulsory for your colleagues and management team. If you have a decent understanding boss,then you don't need menopause awareness training and it just becomes another box ticking exercise for those that 'just don't get it'.
Menopause awareness is great outside of work, it's a stage of life that all women go through and we shouldn't be made to feel ashamed, but I don't want people wondering if I'm 'menopausal' because I stood up for myself, or if I'm changing my underwear when I'm not at my desk.
I would prefer to keep my reproductive organs out of work conversations.

We obviously have to agree to disagree on this

I see it the same as depression awareness. It makes me feel as if im being watched. In some workplaces, I know people have declared their mental health issues and regretted it. Because there’s a culture of over sharing now. It’s a problem.

If workplaces just discreetly included it under “acceptable reasons for being off sick” that would be fine. I just feel this is another thing that highlights women as problematic. I realise i don’t have to talk about my private stuff but I hate the idea of people speculating about something that might not have entered their head.

i really dislike the current culture on this stuff though.

I totally get menopause, believe me. I just don't see any need to involve anyone outside of my forwmds, family and GP in it. It's not a workplace issue.

And in the technology and finance industry, certainly, it would be a huge misstep please believe me. You only just get off the 'mummy track' of maternity leaves and babies in your 40s for a brief few years to rebuild your career before they're trying to write you off as old and past it. People highlighting menopause in the workplace and constantly putting it at the forefront of management's minds and all the things that might affect you like brain fog etc will only help them sideline middle aged women even earlier. I feel extremely strongly based on a 30 year career that this is what would happen in most workplaces.

Might be better in public sector with a more even balance of male and female employees.

My organisation wants to 'take the stigma out of menopause'

Not referring to a natural biological function as a 'stigma' as if it's something shameful might be a good start. What's wrong with 'raising awareness'?

I think it should be included in a management training programme. Absolutely -
managers of mature women need to at least know something about what women go though because a lot of managers, and let’s be honest male ones who make up majority of managers, even if they have wives, are still too young to know what happens other than seeing their mothers go through it mostly after they’ve left home.

but it should be entirely related to the companies menopause POLICY . That has to come first. Then you train the policy out to the manager to ensure it is implemented. There is bog all point doing training without a policy in place - it’s just meaningless words and wasted time.

menopuase policies should be implemented to allow women to raise certain issues with their managers knowing what is acceptable workplace adjustments and what is appropriate to raise. So it should include whether women can ask for a fan, about breaks, about access to a locker to keep spare clothing etc in case of flooding. Yes, as part of training it needs information for all a managers to get the full list of menopause symptoms- and also strong words not to assume that all women are going through any or all . For instance brain fog or anxiety could be used as reason for poor performance by bosses who won’t actually deal with issues relating to other stuff. The training should also equip managers with techniques to deal with difficult, and potentially embarrassing issues, that they or their female staff may need to raise. It is not an easy topic for any boss, male or female, to deal with, so give people knowledge, the right language so they minimise everyone’s risk of embarrassment

I simply see no reason at all for all staff training other than announcement of policy and a copy to read and sign, and if any questions to talk to manager. Exactly like maternity policy - we don’t train everyone on pregnancy . But we sure could do with training some childless managers on it🤦‍♀️

policy first. Train managers second and make part of new manager toolbox, then roll policy as read and sign to rest of employees

Sorry example of right language for managers to use and knowledge. One of my menopausal symptoms was interstitial cystitis. It took 4 years for diagnosis. I was off work, or needing to leave part way through the day , at it’s worse, multiple times per month. I had endless appointments with consultants. I had 3 different treatments before eventually long term low dose antibiotics worked . Luckily in my company we had occ health so my boss could ask occ health to find out what was going on and was I taking the piss (pun 🤣🤣) with all the time off.
but in companies without occ health, managers being aware the UTIs increase in frequency and why (don’t hold back on physiological reasons) and that it can take a lot of time to get diagnosis, and levels of pain people are in, could mean a much easier and less embarrassing conversation between staff and manager. My manager, cos I did talk about it direct to him, for instance didn’t even know what a UTI was, and associated cystitis with too much sex 🤦‍♀️

We've had optional seminars about this recently. We do have quite an experienced workforce so I think even with far more men at work they have still found it useful to understand their wives/friends or just be a bit more understanding. We also have had seminars on prostrates and also suicide as this is horrifyingly common amongst middle aged men in construction. I don't see a particular problem with it provided it is optional (maybe compulsory for managers) and it is part of wider initiatives so it is not sexist.