The science behind the Davina prog and the claims about HRT/dementia

[JinglingHellsBells]

Here is a link to it.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211104140355.htm

Personally, I'm tending to go with the idea that estrogen helps brains and have read/ listened to menopause experts and neurologists on this.

Having said that, I've found this info that was included in the Ch 4 Davina prog.

It is very sketchy and I don't think anyone ought to take it as definitive proof. (Playing devil's advocate here a bit!)

It was an observational study. It was only 99 women. It also included factors like length of fertile years ( periods starting to stopping), use of the Pill, and also HRT.

The programme made out if was absolute fact when the authors of the report say it's a hypothesis (only) at this point. It's disappointing that it was 'bigged up' when that is not factually correct.

The earlier programme with Davina had interviews with (IMO) more reputable specialists and neurologists on this topic.

Thanks for this! Will read later. I'm in agreement but I think they find it hard to control for the oestrogen in studies as the hrt improves other factors so much which would then impact brain health on their own (if that makes sense!)

Briefly looking, I'm sure Lisa mosconi does look at all of that in her book.

I feel a bit like the programme skimmed it too much. At the same time the "May" seems to be the issue.

Thanks for this thread

Interesting, thanks for this. Commenting to remind myself to look at the article later!

@JinglingHellsBells thank you for starting this thread and posting the link.

Reading through the link one thing I don't understand is that if there was a definitive link between higher overall oestrogen exposure eg from having children and dementia/lower grey matter volume then wouldn't a really obvious link between dementia and not having any children be apparent? Or a strong link between dementia and women who go through a very early menopause and therefore have less overall oestrogen exposure.

A quick Google search brought up this research that shows women who have >4 children and those who have no children have a greater risk of dementia than those who have 1-2 children but this isn't uniform geographically and across all types of dementia:
bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01671-1

So maybe the influence of oestrogen/cause of dementia is much more complex than oestrogen = good, menopause = bad -> cure = HRT?

As you say, the study you referenced is only a small observational study, but still I personally wouldn't put too much faith in the HRT helps stave off dementia belief until I see lots of robust independent research to back it up.

Yes
Thanks for this
I found this very disappointing reporting

There was a discussion on dementia (Alzheimers is just one form of dementia- there are several types) on either the TV prog with Mariella F or Davina (I think it was MF.)

She interviewed an eminent London-based neurologist who felt certain that HRT does prevent brain decline.

It will be online as iPlayer if you search.

I also think (can't be sure as I read so much!) that Liz Earle interviews Nick Panay on this, or Diane Danzebrink does, and he says (again, don't quite me) that HRT appears to give protection.

I'd go by his opinion as he's the main HRT researcher in the UK on menopause and is pretty balanced in his views.

There have also been articles on this in Climacteric the journal of the International Menopause Society.

This link shows that they don't think HRT makes dementia any more likely.

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2053369120957514

This is form another recent paper.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1521690X21000828

I find it reassuring. I'm not going to worry about HRT and dementia, partly as lifestyle is shown to have good protection, HRT is unlikely to make it worse and may even help.

The risks of dementia appear to be linked to the older types of HRT and starting it late. (Same as the other risks in the WHI trials.)

Two recent meta-analyses identified 18 and 16 studies analyzing the impact of MHT on dementia/AD risk. Our systematic literature search identified eight additional original articles. The majority of studies found a risk reducing impact of MHT by 11–33%. However, results may vary depending on MHT type, age at initiation and study design. For example, the Women's Health Initiative Memory Study (WHIMS) reported an approximately 2-fold increased risk of dementia/Alzheimer's disease if MHT comprising conjugated equine estrogens and medroxyprogesterone acetate was initiated in predominantly comorbid postmenopausal women above age 65. In general, MHT displays a beneficial effect on several dementia risk factors and also augments some protective factors.

It makes sense to me. On HRT (I'm on oestrogen only) I'm more likely to feel well, walk more, do my physio, eat better and write more. Left without HRT, I would descend into a sweating, gibbering wreck.

I know which state is more likely to help stave off dementia.

So maybe not causal; but definitely correlative.

I'm half way through many books oestrogen matters and there are lots of bits on small brain studies. I need to go back and revisit. Certainly lupron was found to affect verbal memory, with hrt reversing it.

I think no one wants to fully hammer their colours to the mast as it's hard to untangle; to me it's pointing to towards it.

I'd be interested to know if the low testosterone doses given in some hrt also have an impact as one primary reason for giving is brain fog. But I doubt anyones looking at that with as much force long term as the oestrogen.

@JinglingHellsBells You are very knowledgeable on this issue Do you work in the field?