Sleep. I need help.

[GoodyAlsop]

Sleep! I can’t sleep.
Backstory:
Hysterectomy and 1 ovary out 3 years back.
Flushes on and off for the last 2 years. Managable and patchy up to 6 months ago.
Now.
Flushes. All night. Many many many times. No sweating but so hot it feels like I’m being cooked.
Add into that the heart bumping, plummet into doom feeling just before each flush. And the thrashing restlessness with it.
This is happening about every hour from about 7pm. Sometimes in the day.
I can’t sleep. It takes about 2.5 hours to pop off. Then I get woken about every 40 minutes all night with the above. Last night I counted and between 12 and 7 it was at least 12 times.
Things I have:
Wool duvet. Window. Fan. Cotton PJs. No screens from bedtime. Magnesium.
Things I know but can’t: stress (work is foul at the mo). Fatness. Alcohol (yes I know I could do this) Exercise (tired, joints hurt).

Started HRT a week ago - evorel patches.

I’m so tired. Worse than newborn tired. Worse than 4 night shifts in a row tired. I can’t function. The less I sleep the more anxious and obsessed with it I get. I cannot continue but what do I do? I’m too tired and fuzzy to see any way out.

Blimey op that sounds incredibly tough, bumping for you in case someone who knows what to suggest. If it were me I’d be trying to get a doctors appointment. Really hope you get some relief soon.

Hopefully your hrt will kick in soon. I used it for a year and gave it up as I became allergic to the patches. However it seemed to get me over the worst and I have managed OK since. Fingers crossed for you. You have my sympathy - it's awful.

It’s so bloody awful. You have my sympathies it’s like being tortured.

Oestrogen helped with mine at their worst so fingers crossed you get some relief soon. Don’t be afraid to go back to get it tweaked.

I know you don’t want to hear this but alcohol is a real trigger for my poor sleep/flushes, starting with the worst:

Red wine - absolute bastard
White wine not as bad as red
Cider
Gin

Blimey poor you. No advice really other than I take starflower oil to stave off menopause symptoms.

I hope the HRT works for you.

Last night not so bad. Only 5 times I think. I feel almost refreshed!
I know I need to bin the booze - it’s that work shite habit. It’s got to go!

I have had issues with insomnia too and have learnt that magnesium can have the opposite effect if you are low on potassium. It certainly seems to be the case with me as I was taking ZMA supplement for a good while, then switched to Mag Biglycinate and then to Mag Malate, still awful sleep. I've now dropped them all and it has improved my situation a lot. Still not perfect but much better.

I only have magnesium topically now. Magnesium lotion and Epsom salt foot baths and trying to build my potassium levels up.

I find high strength evening primrose oil supplements helps me a lot. I notice a huge difference when I run out.

Ask GP about taking progesterone? I was waking a lot in the night and on that I sleep like a log. If you have oestrogen then I believe you should also have progesterone

I started taking an Omega 3 supplement for completely non-related reasons.... and then discovered it had significant benefits for my sleep by reducing anxiety and hot flushes and just generally being good. I now know that's relatively common for Omega3 supplements to be suggested, but I didn't at the time.

It does not solve ALL the problems, but does help. I also discovered both iron and vitamin d were very low and as those have come up, sleep has improved too. No idea if it's cause and effect or co-incidence based on longer-term use of Omega 3.

Give your HRT time to work. It's very early days. Ideally they ought to have suggested this 3 years ago when you had your op, as they say the ovaries can fail quite soon afterwards, and they removed one anyway.

But- look forwards! You estrogen levels will be very low and it's going to take a few weeks to build up.

Ditch the booze- it's no good for sleep.

@FelicityElectricity

Ask GP about taking progesterone? I was waking a lot in the night and on that I sleep like a log. If you have oestrogen then I believe you should also have progesterone

Not if you have had a hysterectomy @FelicityElectricity. Progesterone is simply to protect the uterus.

Progesterone's benefit ONLY being to protect the endometrium is a lie. Such a mistruth that continues to propagate "wisdom" about how to treat symptoms even among the HRT proponents. Sad.

What else does progesterone do in menopausal women @Sharonz? I'm with Jingling, I thought it was just to protect the endometrium if you're taking estrogen.

@Sharonz

Progesterone's benefit ONLY being to protect the endometrium is a lie. Such a mistruth that continues to propagate "wisdom" about how to treat symptoms even among the HRT proponents. Sad.

Is it? I must admit I thought it was only needed if you still had a uterus.

What else is it recommended for?

Hi
I started progesterone (taken as a pill at night) and gel estrogen rubbed in in the morning on Christmas day.. starting to notice feeling better but I was not suffering the flushes anywhere as bad as you.
I started HRT to benefit my heart, mood and sleep. and thus energy levels. I have also added in CBD drops taken under the tongue as I go to bed, this HAS made the difference
also going to add in Testosterone come March
HRT is bloody marvelous and should be offered to all women, its not just hot flushes it helps but your whole body, estrogen effects every cell in your body

@Sharonz

Progesterone's benefit ONLY being to protect the endometrium is a lie. Such a mistruth that continues to propagate "wisdom" about how to treat symptoms even among the HRT proponents. Sad.

In post menopause, women do not have any progesterone. It's produced after ovulation to help implantation.

It has no role in post meno women or women with no uterus on HRT.

I am not sure why you think it has?

Do you think all menopause specialist consultants are uneducated and ignorant on this?

There is a small group of drs offering unlicensed HRT, and other alternative types of treatment, who may try to convince women that they need progesterone but sadly, they are incorrect.

Progesterone is used by women without ovaries and in post-menopausal women, as it can benefit brain health, mood and sleep. I suggest researching the work of people like Jerrilyn Prior. And I am referencing oral micronized progesterone (Prometrium), not compounded or OTC formulations.

@Sharonz

Progesterone is used by women without ovaries and in post-menopausal women, as it can benefit brain health, mood and sleep. I suggest researching the work of people like Jerrilyn Prior. And I am referencing oral micronized progesterone (Prometrium), not compounded or OTC formulations.

Are you in the UK and being treated by a dr here?

Because some of what you post is not correct.

In the UK, progesterone is not used by women for brain, health, mood and sleep. Micronised progesterone is a 'natural' sedative but it's not prescribed as such- that's a by product of absorption.

In fact it is the progesterone part of HRT that causes the most side effects. (Read this forum more for evidence of that!

You've posted a couple of things on here (other threads) that aren't quite correct (like continuous progesterone for women in peri.

Utrogestan is the oral micronised progesterone that is prescribed in the UK.

The Dr you mention is based in Canada and is an academic.

Her theories are just that. They are regarded as alternative, otherwise they would be adhered to by the handful of very experienced menopause specialists in the UK.

Well, you clearly know better than all the menopause specialists in the UK.

I only woke up about 3 times last night!!!!!!!

Brilliant! It’s going in right direction. You’ll be a new woman.

OP, I was you at Christmas, that’s when I started oestrogen gel. I am now sleeping through and I’m back to my normal self. Give it a few weeks :)