Anyone choosing NOT to use HRT?

[WandaWomblesaurus73]

Does anyone feel that HRT isn't for them or feel happier without it?

@MrsLargeEmbodied

how long after the end of menstruation can a woman start hrt?

You can start HRT when you have periods....ie peri menopausal

@JaniieJones

'Women in general. Average live expectancy is the metric you need, not anecdata from individual family trees'

Anecdata from individual family trees is very relevant.

Not for population level change it isn't. Its only relevant to an individual looking into their medical history.

@BeyondMyWits

I'm not allowed HRT due to having had a heart attack (or 2). So I have to live with the symptoms. Hot flushes, night sweats, achy joints and brain fog. Sometimes it's tough, but not all the time. So although I haven't chosen not to take it, things are bumbling along OK ish.

You can still take HRT. Transdermal gel or patch.... HRT also helps prevent heart disease

I have found this 'decision tree flow chart', on this website 'menopause matters':

www.menopausematters.co.uk/tree.php

Which may be of some help to pp looking for risk/benefit analysis?

(The site's run by NHS gyno doctors, there's info on them under the 'about' tab.)

Ah thanks @ArabellaScott. Now that is useful.

@JaniieJones

'Is it arguing? I just want to get information tbh'

It's a disappointing attitude isn't it. Many women confused and just wanting clarity and information. The only 'argument' on the thread been regarding a pp's odd, insensitive comments about how very young she looked.

Yep. Bit surprised at how combative some of the posts here are when women are just looking for solid info.

@Mossstitch

I have never liked the idea of putting artificial hormones/non essential drugs into my body, tendency to use natural remedies on occasions, so I have never used the contraceptive pill or coil and when I hit the menopause just went with the flow. Yes I had hot flushes and erratic periods but it was quite livable with and quite honestly best thing to happen to me. No periods is great!!! It is a natural process after all which women have been going through for ever without having to medicate.

With respect you say yourself your symptoms are liveable. This is the extreme opposite of the experience of many other women's, myself included. Saying there's no need to medicate is very dismissive.

And that same website also has a page on risk assessment:

www.menopausematters.co.uk/risks.php

That's the kind of good, clear, referenced info I find really useful.

www.menopausematters.co.uk/balance.php

If you exclude child and maternal deaths I think you will find a woman who reached 40 historically could well expect to live much longer than 56

Life expectancy ( post 40) had varied over time , falling with migration to cities for example, but the ancient Greeks knew people could live to over 100

Yes we live longer but not by 20 years

Very aware I've not yet RTFT but it's depressing how many replies dismissing peri and menopause as natural so need to take anything.

It must be lovely to sail through this part of life without your everyday being debilitated by it. Many aren't so lucky.

HRT. Mind you, I haven't seen a GP for nearly 20 years as I don't want to waste doctors' time.

//// So help coping with this is wasting doctors time?

If you exclude child and maternal deaths I think you will find a woman who reached 40 historically could well expect to live much longer than 56

Maternity related deaths were nearly 50% of women in many eras. You can prove pretty much anything if you remove huge chunks of the cohort.

The bulk of the female population living well beyond menopause is a modern phenomenon.
Attention to women's health is very recent even in that context and still poorly served on the whole (its not an accident that even severe endometriosis takes an average of 8 yrs to be diagnosed by which time permanent damage may be done).

@Mojoj

No. Menopause is a natural part of life. I am relying on a good, plant based diet and lots of exercise. HRT is not natural.

Lucky you! Diet, exercise, veganism, yoga, meditation....I've tried it all but nothing helped me other than HRT. Please don't try and make out that being holier than though with diet and exercise will help women's depleted hormones....because it won't.

I don't get the whole "HRT just delays things " argument - is this true?

Surely in the meantime the health and well-being benefits are still there? Odd

@HomeCountiesMum sadly both my haematologist and my APS specialist don’t recommend the patch or gel in my case. While they might not make the blood ‘as’ sticky as other forms of HRT, the risk factors are too high in my case.

Looking at the health of women who live post menopause requires that you only compare outcomes with historic groups who also lived past menopause

unless you have reason to think that having high probability of dying in childbirth would correlate with poor post menopause outcomes

I am not saying people should not have HRT
I am not saying that it isn't under researched
I can see clear benefit for people who have symptoms
I can see clear benefits for people who menopause quite early ( I would say before 50)
I am struggling to see clear benefits ( not confounded by genetics and lifestyle ) for the older person with no or limited symptoms

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

HRT. Mind you, I haven't seen a GP for nearly 20 years as I don't want to waste doctors' time.

//// So help coping with this is wasting doctors time?

Not everyone does not cope

There are people implying that everyone should take hrt

You not being able to cope without it is not reason for someone who is happy without to take it

There is no shame in it, is there ?

@JinglingHellsBells

Do men go onto forums and argue over whether they choose to take certain treatments?

I really do think about that! I am sure there is a study to be done on how women are conditioned to ‘soldier on’ and how that message is passed down from mums/grandmas and perhaps culturally too. It’s prob been done.

Only anecdotally but I have heard friends say hrt isn’t for them as they ‘aren’t old enough’ when they are 48-49. Partly I suspect because even having the conversation means they are ‘old’.

I guess some men do feel the same about health checks, weight management and other issues. Men go to the GP less on the whole I think?

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

I don't get the whole "HRT just delays things " argument - is this true?

Surely in the meantime the health and well-being benefits are still there? Odd

I have heard this anecdotally. I don't know if true - some women said when they stopped taking HRT they then had to go through all the symptoms they'd been taking HRT to avoid/treat/suppress.

Perhaps it depends on reasons for taking and what you're taking and how long for?

@bordermidgebite
The problem with older women, say over 60, is that once issues such as osteoporosis or prolapse arise they are past the window to start HRT whereas preventative treatment from perimenopause could have prevented it.

@ArabellaScott Many of us are on it for life.

@bordermidgebite

Looking at the health of women who live post menopause requires that you only compare outcomes with historic groups who also lived past menopause

unless you have reason to think that having high probability of dying in childbirth would correlate with poor post menopause outcomes

I am not saying people should not have HRT
I am not saying that it isn't under researched
I can see clear benefit for people who have symptoms
I can see clear benefits for people who menopause quite early ( I would say before 50)
I am struggling to see clear benefits ( not confounded by genetics and lifestyle ) for the older person with no or limited symptoms

The ‘older person’ might be just fine of course. It’s hard to know until we all get there! You can however base it on your family history, which some of us are doing. Preventative medicine is an interesting area. If it’s cheaper to offer women hrt aged 50 than deal with dementia and bone fractures we might see more hrt in the future. We shall see!

I really do think about that! I am sure there is a study to be done on how women are conditioned to ‘soldier on’

I don’t feel I need it so it’s not this.

More what are the risk / benefit apart from typical symptoms

Link below was useful Arabella thanks

Marsha I think that’s too easy to dismiss. Women are bombarded with advertising and messages about being stoic, having natural births, my mum didn’t need hrt etc etc I doubt any of us are immune

@ArabellaScott The links you left to Menopause Matters have been on this forum many times and I left the same link just a few days ago.

The consultant running the site does indeed work for the NHS, but Menopause Matters website and the magazine she runs, is a private company. They make money from advertising on the site (like Mumsnet) and the magazine.

So I don't know if that sits well with you, bearing in mind you are sceptical of other doctors who have an element of private practice ('making money out of menopause.')