The 4 am waking and the sleepless nights

[MareofBeasttown]

I am 49, still have regular ish periods, but with many other symptoms of menopause, such as anxiety, crashing fatigue and lately, waking up at 4 am and not being able to go back to sleep. My GP does not think I am a good candidate for HRT as my aunt died of breast cancer and I had a (benign) lump in my breast recently. I have been awake since 4 am this morning and am so exhausted.

I have a lot on my plate and I need my sleep. Any suggestions? I do not drink, and exercise. I do drink caffeine but not after 4 pm and only twice a day.

I’m finally at the stage where I can’t take the sleepless nights, constantly needing to pee at night, being hot all of the time, the crushing fatigue and the weight gain so I’m going to be seeing the GP to request HRT as soon as I can get an appointment (not til 30 September ). But with regard to breast cancer concerns, maybe it’s worth having another conversation? There are many different types of HRT. Not sure if you’re familiar with Louise Newson’s My Menopause Doctor website but here’s a link, specifically to the cancer concerns

www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/menopause/topics/relationships

d2931px9t312xa.cloudfront.net/menopausedoctor/files/information/614/Family%20History%20of%20Breast%20Cancer%20FINAL2.pdf

The fact you had an aunt who had BC is not a contraindication to HRT.

It's surprising your GP thinks this or even asked about it.

Consultants tend to look at the BRAC gene or at least 2 first degree relatives - that's your mum and any sisters.

As @DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat

says, there are many types of HRT and the most modern are shown not to increase the risk of BC for at least 5 years. (Body identical estrogen and micronised progesterone.)

Also, at 49, the 'risks' of HRT don't start until you are beyond the age of the average menopause - 51.

Not wanting to dismiss or sideline your worry- it's valid of course- but maybe read around it a bit more and see how you feel then?

Try this
www.sweetbeeorganics.co.uk/products/sweet-sleep?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjpSn9b3d8gIVibHtCh0msg4hEAAYASAAEgKSrfD_BwE

Works a treat for me.

@MareofBeasttown Having coffee at 4pm is too late. I follow Dr Chattarjee on Instagram and in one of his clips recently him and his guest talked about caffeine effects on sleep. Apparently it takes 12 hours for the caffeine circulate in your body, once it's been consumed.

As I suffer from peri-related sleep issues too, I have now dropped my post lunch coffee. It was actually easier than I thought it would be. I only have one cup of coffee at breakfast now. Not giving that one up

It's been about 3 weeks now, sleep is still up and down. Will persevere.

Thanks everyone. I think I should see my GP again or see a specialist. I am a bit nervous about HRT but I guess I should read more about it. I generally don't have any health anxiety. Perhaps the GP picked up on my nervousness, and the sleeplessness wasn't so bad when I last spoke to her.
Only one coffee a day!:( I have literally given up everything-carbs, alcohol, sugar.... Say it isn't so:)

Whatever you choose @MareofBeasttown isn't permanent. You could try other remedies- herbal sleeping aids etc like valerian- and if they help, fine. If you try HRT, then you could try it for 6 months and see if it helped. If it did, then it the time to think about short or medium term use, or not use at all.

Is it really up to your GP if you take HRT?

I’m in the perimenopause and I had a great aunt that died of breast cancer and I’m not telling the doctor at all, this feeling can go on for 6 to 13 years and I’m not suffering on this basis, we all have to die of something and I’m really shit at suffering and this is what I’m doing now, go back to see a different doctor and demand HRT.

I've found that not eating after 6pm has helped quite a bit and I only drink water after that too. I didn't think that a decaf tea would be a bad thing in the evening but I can sometimes make it to 5.30am if I drop my tea altogether .

4am - 6am seems to be my wake up time! I think that’s why I’m so tired, I’m having 8 hours but I would rather go to bed at midnight and wake at 12, it’s so draining waking at 6am, it will be worse in the winter.

Sorry midnight and wake at 8am, plus TV is shit at 6am

I am now caffeine free and use a coffee substitute from Holland and Barrett that tastes great. I’ll see if I can find the page for it and link.

www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/whole-earth-organic-no-caffeine-60099255

Here's what I do to deal with menopause-related insomnia:
No caffeine (switch to water filtered decaf coffee and only I cup of that a day)
Gentle yoga before bed and no screen the for at least 90 minutes before bed
Exercise outdoors in the morning
If you wake too early, try a meditation app and 4-7-8 breathing.

Yogateacher yes to switching screens off for me too. I ditched catching up with mumsnet the news on my phone for reading a book instead. Before, I could have spent an hour on my phone before feeling sleepy, now I'm lucky if I read more than 4 or 5 pages before I'm out for the count.

I am experiencing this too, also 49 and similar symptoms to you.

It is exhausting

Mine is often accompanied by a trip to the toilet for a poo

I have been going back to bed and trying to sleep or rest at least until 7am

Last night I started taking magnesium and will let you know

You might find you sleep better if you go back on carbs. I read an article by a sleep adviser who said that she sees many people who have a low carb diet, and she advises them to eat carbs and they then start sleeping better. I think the reason was to do with the low carb diet making your body produce more stress hormones.

Strict Keto definitely caused me raging insomnia. So I’m low carb now and it’s much better.

I'm struggling with sleeping. I generally fall asleep ok but have been waking regularly at 2/3am for the last few weeks. Either too hot, thirsty, have a headache, need a wee. Usually something I have to get out of bed to sort. Then I can't get back to sleep for ages. I sometimes need to get up at 5.30am to get ready for an early shift so feel constantly exhausted some weeks.