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Menopause

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Starting HRT when you still have periods -what types have people tried?

124 replies

Aspergallus · 09/07/2021 20:51

I'm embarrassed to say I have just realised that I am perimenopausal. Embarrassed because I'm a doctor and have been tolerating strange things for about 4 years without realising that this was the answer. I'm 45 and I think this all started when I was 41.

I'd had my second child at 38. It took about 2 years for my periods to come back (was only breast feeding for 6 months). While I waited for my period to return, I felt hellish. It was like permanent PMT and the night sweats drenched my bed and mattress. If I sat up at night I had a river running down my chest. Then my periods came back and were pretty regular (28 days) but sometimes lasted 10 days, sometimes 1 day. And my PMT was more like the whole second fortnight rather than a few days. I remember meeting an old friend and when she asked how I was I blurted out "ANGRY. All the fucking time."

Then at 41 I fell pregnant with my third child. Pregnancy was a blessed relief. I felt like me again -the world was crystal clear and I was content. But I knew I was different, better, and started to dread the end of the pregnancy and returning to what had been going on. I actually thought it was just PMT worsening with age and started researching ways to deal with PMT in preparation.

Delivered my third when I was 42. Got my periods back 18 months after she was born. Same experience as before while waiting. Night sweats were insane. Settled when my periods returned. But gradually, the anger, volatile moods and random period duration has returned. Instead of just being in the second half, it's solidly the second half with random spikes at other times when I am just in the red fog. My husband looks like me like I've gone mad and says "why are you so angry about this now, you've never been angry about this before?".

What else...

I'm tired all the time
My weight "set point" is about 20lbs higher than it has been. I can lose with a huge amount of effort, gain easily but generally sit at the same place, just in the overweight BMI cat.
I feel hungry most of the time.
I wake a lot at night having been a very deep sleeper my whole life
Occasional night sweats but nothing like when I had no period at all
My tolerance for normal behaviour from the kids is very low, and out of keeping with who I think I really am (if that makes sense)

Last month I had a frightening experience when I lost my central vision in one eye. I had an emergency appointment. GP/optician assumption was that I had a retinal detachment (I'm very short sighted and this is a known risk). Turns out it was my first ever migraine. I realised then, that on reflection I had been having visual aura for a while.

I asked the eye dr why I'd have migraine for the first time at 45 and they said, "menopause". And that's when the penny dropped.

I definitely don't want another baby just to escape this for 9 months...so I do think I'd like HRT...for me, for household harmony, to get my energy back...

Wondering what experiences other women have had with HRT at my age, while still having periods. Would love to hear thoughts on specific types.

A big issue for me is acne. I have had lifelong issues with hormonal acne and my skin is actually pretty good right now. I wonder if this would play a part in any choice here.

Grateful to you if you read this and can offer some thoughts!

OP posts:
gluteustothemaximus · 10/07/2021 22:56

Will I get laughed out of the doctor’s office at my age?

I did. 40 years old. Unlikely she said. Am on coil, symptoms are horrendous. That doesn't happen with the coil she said.

Migraines are getting so bad. Never mind, she said, even if it was perimenopause - no HRT for migraine sufferers.

If I was desperate, I could go on antidepressants.

That was it.

I work 40 hours a week, but every day I come in, I go to sleep for 2-3 hours, then cook/organise kids/get ready for work then go to bed and sleep. I am hot ALL THE TIME (always used to be cold, really cold, all the time).

The fatigue is insane. Periods are 2 weeks long, getting close together and the PMT is just awful. Depression, suicidal thoughts and an awful brain fog.

But no. Am too early for that. And even if it was, nothing they can do.

The bloating is so depressing. I feel I look 3/4 months pregnant all the time.

Being a woman is shit Sad

Bryonyshcmyony · 10/07/2021 23:00

That sounds so awful. The vogel menopause supplement is excellent. You can get it on amazon. It's worth a try.

Rina66 · 10/07/2021 23:03

OMG @gluteustothemaximus so many of my friends and I all had hormonal migraines until we took HRT - you poor thing, you need a new doctor and HRT. The private doctors all say to quote the NICE guidelines to your GP.

gluteustothemaximus · 10/07/2021 23:07

@Rina66

OMG *@gluteustothemaximus* so many of my friends and I all had hormonal migraines until we took HRT - you poor thing, you need a new doctor and HRT. The private doctors all say to quote the NICE guidelines to your GP.
I'm thinking a new doctor might be a good idea. It's not the first time things have been dismissed (female issues).

Thank you Flowers

JinglingHellsBells · 11/07/2021 07:44

@Bryonyshcmyony

Novofem only has 12? days a month of progesterone.

I am sure the clot advice is correct but I'm suspicious that menopause experts play up those dangers to get middle class women to pay their ridiculous fees.

They are definitely not 'playing up' the risks. It's in all the research and has been for years and years.

It's a matter of choice. Women are paying taxes to the NHS so by going to someone privately as their GPs aren't up to speed, they are in fact paying twice.

Bryonyshcmyony · 11/07/2021 08:05

The majority of women can't afford it. I get sick of reading about celebs going privately, davina macall, msriella frostrup, Lisa snowdon, then banging on about HRT like they've discovered it while simultaneously paying out huge sums.

Sorry, probably just jealous that I can't afford it but I think it stinks.

Bryonyshcmyony · 11/07/2021 08:06

And of course it isn't a matter of choice. The vast majority of women can't afford hundreds and hundreds of pounds for decent HRT.

Bagelsandbrie · 11/07/2021 08:12

@Bryonyshcmyony I agree with you- and I’m one of the people who used my credit card to pay for Newson health treatment. I can’t really afford it. We’re in huge amounts of debt, we live on a very low income and disability benefits. I was desperate though and (as I said earlier) I’m not really any further forwards for paying it anyway!

The whole health system stinks. There’s definitely a two tier system emerging, not just with HRT and menopause but everything. If you can’t afford private treatment you just sit on the NHS waiting lists for months and months and then see someone for 10 mins and usually get dismissed unless you literally have a limb hanging off or something glaringly obvious. Anything more complex - especially autoimmune, rheumatology or women’s stuff you just get fobbed off or they don’t investigate properly. It’s awful.

Bryonyshcmyony · 11/07/2021 08:18

[quote Bagelsandbrie]@Bryonyshcmyony I agree with you- and I’m one of the people who used my credit card to pay for Newson health treatment. I can’t really afford it. We’re in huge amounts of debt, we live on a very low income and disability benefits. I was desperate though and (as I said earlier) I’m not really any further forwards for paying it anyway!

The whole health system stinks. There’s definitely a two tier system emerging, not just with HRT and menopause but everything. If you can’t afford private treatment you just sit on the NHS waiting lists for months and months and then see someone for 10 mins and usually get dismissed unless you literally have a limb hanging off or something glaringly obvious. Anything more complex - especially autoimmune, rheumatology or women’s stuff you just get fobbed off or they don’t investigate properly. It’s awful.[/quote]
My dsis is trying to get help for her alcoholism. She can't give up straight away or she might have a heart attack. She's waited 6 weeks for help and then got two phone calls. She's suicidal. If she had money she could go for a medical detox which costs thousands. It sucks.

I mean - I'm a hypocrite as I use private school. But you don't get Mariella Frostrup doing big articles about how amazing private education is and how she's cracked the issues with her children's education by paying.

ladygindiva · 11/07/2021 08:21

Hi I went on estrogel and utrogestan as at 46 though periods still regularish I was definitely in peri. Its taken a few weeks but my aches and mood swings and weird symptoms ( heartburn, inflamed gums amongst them) have all improved and I have way more energy. My last period was also lighter than usual, probably what you'd class as normal compared to my usual 10 day anemia inducing bloodbath. I don't know if that was the hrt, but id urge you to give it a try.

JinglingHellsBells · 11/07/2021 08:28

@Bryonyshcmyony

And of course it isn't a matter of choice. The vast majority of women can't afford hundreds and hundreds of pounds for decent HRT.
But people will pay that for a holiday, a newer car, clothes, or meals out.

Sure, some people can't do any of that, but many do.

JinglingHellsBells · 11/07/2021 08:31

@Bryonyshcmyony I think you misunderstand the costs. Many women pay around £250 for a first appt and then they get their repeat HRT from their GP. Some have a 2nd appt in the same year at a lower cost, so all in all, it might be around £400 or so.

I agree that the NHS needs to step up, and it should not be necessary. But women who can afford these costs may prefer to have a 45 minute discussion rather than the 10 mins allowed with a GP.

housework1977 · 11/07/2021 08:32

@Aspergallus I've also got adhd and children do too. My experience with GP has been refusal post private diagnosis to take on the prescribing so I'm fucked if I'm going to pay for HRT privately as well (but that's another post). The two tier system is alive and well and my GPs seem to cherry pick the bits they want to take on!

My personal experience of acne like you, plus PMDD and ADHD has made me realise how sensitive to hormones I am. My GP was happy to prescribe me the gel and Ustrogen as per above but even two pumps daily left me an absolute wreck after a week. I couldn't function or think and felt worse than when I was pregnant. She won't give me the pill due to age, so I stopped and am waiting to get bloods tested next week by NHS and then see. She has referred me to a meno clinic. I personally need to find a consultant with hormone and neurology specific advice because psychiatrist won't help with hormones other than to say I need to try to flatten out the spikes and GP isn't able to offer more specialist advice and I don't hold out much hope for a generic meno clinic either.

I have to say I find the constant marketing of Louise Newsom on here very wearing. I'm sure she is great for lots of people, but she is very expensive by the sounds of it (driven by demand not qualification) and even follow ups are charged for. I also thought her application of gel video completely confusing snd totally inconsistent with the instructions given by the manufacturer in the leaflet. So I don't think people on here should be pushing anyone and let women make up their minds in terms of their own medical need. I think post Davina ALOT of so called practitioners will be coming out of the woodwork. And agree with @Bryonyshcmyony that the likes of Meg and Davinia can just do one. I mean for fucks sake there are no infra red saunas around where I live. I guess if you live in Marbella or Notting Hill but rural parts with no Wholefoods or Deliveroo this just makes me laugh.

Bryonyshcmyony · 11/07/2021 08:54

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@Bryonyshcmyony I think you misunderstand the costs. Many women pay around £250 for a first appt and then they get their repeat HRT from their GP. Some have a 2nd appt in the same year at a lower cost, so all in all, it might be around £400 or so.

I agree that the NHS needs to step up, and it should not be necessary. But women who can afford these costs may prefer to have a 45 minute discussion rather than the 10 mins allowed with a GP.[/quote]
I don't misunderstand the costs. 400 is a lot.

Bryonyshcmyony · 11/07/2021 08:58

I have to say I find the constant marketing of Louise Newsom on here very wearing god, me too.

Tbh I feel absolutely great on my bog standard low dose cheap NHS pills and no sign of blood clots.

Bryonyshcmyony · 11/07/2021 09:02

Also what if your gp refuses to prescribe from a private prescription? Some do.

ImaHogg · 11/07/2021 09:03

@Bryonyshcmyony

And of course it isn't a matter of choice. The vast majority of women can't afford hundreds and hundreds of pounds for decent HRT.
Totally agree with this. I follow all of those celebrities who rave about Dr Newson and she's forever on TV going on about the wonders of body identical hrt but you try getting it from.tje average uk GP who all seem totally uneducated about the menopause let alone peri! Louise Newson and all the others fees are out of reach for people like me on low wages (I am a carer for my mum who has Alzheimer's, carers allowance is a pittance!). I am 48 and living life by just hanging by a thread with so many awful symptoms. I also have the added stress of having heavy bleeding due to uterine polyps, I have currently been on a year long waiting list on the NHS thanks to bloody covid (and still no appointment in sight) for a hysteroscopy to remove the polyps (for the 3rd time!) and mirena insertion to try to cure my god awful anaemia (ferritin is only 5). I am stuck between a rock and a hard place because the NHS is letting me down (changed gp surgeries twice and still all I get offered is antidepressants!) Sadly I just can not afford the private fees that many take for granted, we don't all have £££'s to throw at it so end up living half lives and I personally am feeling on the edge of a breakdown. It's ok for the likes of Davina and those on high wages to sing the praises of these clinics but out of reach for so many. It's unfair, the NHS just doesn't seem up to date with the menopause as these clinics are.
LoveMyKidsNDoggo · 11/07/2021 09:09

Can anyone offer advice pls?
I'm 47, obese and well into peri.

Symptoms : awful hot flushes, especially in the morning
Random severe joint pains
Weight gain
Brain fog
Dry eyes
Sinus problens
Facial skin - awful melasma
Almost continual uti - last few times after sex I've been in agony where it gets so bad I'll be peeing blood with clots (sorry tmi) antibiotics get rid of it but then it starts over again.
Periods still regular, although I only bleed for 2 days then have a week of browny discharge
I'm then in agony with a constant dull pain in my right pelvic area until I ovulate then the pain goes, rather strange.

Diagnosed with pcos a few years ago but no treatment offered, because our family is complete.
Also during my last c section (13 years ago) the surgeon said I had very dense and complex adhesions - from my first CS apparently. Could these be causing problems perhaps?

Our GP practice has been taken over and it seems to just have locums there. I asked about hrt a few years ago but due to DM having breast cancer they wouldn't prescribe anything.

Bryonyshcmyony · 11/07/2021 09:11

It is possible to get really helpful HRT from the gp. Body identical HRT isn't the be all and end all. Yes, it possibly has a slightly lower risk of clots. That's a risk you take.

My gp is currently pausing my HRT prescription because my blood pressure is high. I think that's fairly responsible tbh and I'm going back in two weeks to discuss options.

I normally take Novofem. Its a fairly low dose and you only take the progesterone for part of the month. It works well. No hot flushes and a pretty even mood. When I look back at my mood swings 5 years ago I feel embarrassed.

I've found the vogel supplement really good when I've had a break from it (took a break for a few months in 2018)

LoveMyKidsNDoggo · 11/07/2021 09:14

Posted too soon gah!

GP did prescribe citalopram 20mg to help with hot flushes and anxiety. Been on these for about 6 years now.

Thanks 🙏

Bryonyshcmyony · 11/07/2021 09:14

@LoveMyKidsNDoggo

Can anyone offer advice pls? I'm 47, obese and well into peri.

Symptoms : awful hot flushes, especially in the morning
Random severe joint pains
Weight gain
Brain fog
Dry eyes
Sinus problens
Facial skin - awful melasma
Almost continual uti - last few times after sex I've been in agony where it gets so bad I'll be peeing blood with clots (sorry tmi) antibiotics get rid of it but then it starts over again.
Periods still regular, although I only bleed for 2 days then have a week of browny discharge
I'm then in agony with a constant dull pain in my right pelvic area until I ovulate then the pain goes, rather strange.

Diagnosed with pcos a few years ago but no treatment offered, because our family is complete.
Also during my last c section (13 years ago) the surgeon said I had very dense and complex adhesions - from my first CS apparently. Could these be causing problems perhaps?

Our GP practice has been taken over and it seems to just have locums there. I asked about hrt a few years ago but due to DM having breast cancer they wouldn't prescribe anything.

I'm probably going to be really annoying now but I've lost quite a lot of weight low carbing (HRT did NOT help me to lose weight!) I feel a lot healthier generally. Might be worth a try?
FlatteredFool · 11/07/2021 09:28

Reading with interest. I'm 45, had a terrible migraine with vomiting last month for the first time ever, periods all over the place, constantly bloated and hungry and not coping well with that due to previous eating disorder that still lingers in my head and I feel guilty for eating, 3 week long PMT when I've not suffered much before, cycle anything from 7 days to 2 months. sweaty at night sometimes, irritable, tired all the time, craving chocolate and cake, can't find words, blurred vision when reading, takes ages for me to see clearly in the morning. I'm vegetarian and walk about 40 miles a week so am quite active and generally healthy day to day but these things are getting me down.

I react very badly to progesterone as it aggravates my endometriosis. I'm eagerly awaiting my periods stopping as I've had endometriosis for 35 years (but diagnosed age 19) and ill be glad to see the back of my periods.

My friend has recently started on patches and feels dreadful on the progesterone days.

ThanksCake for you all.

Bryonyshcmyony · 11/07/2021 09:32

@LoveMyKidsNDoggo

Posted too soon gah!

GP did prescribe citalopram 20mg to help with hot flushes and anxiety. Been on these for about 6 years now.

Thanks 🙏

Yes I've always thought this was a cop out but it might be my next port of call as my main symptoms are anxiety and hot flushes.
Suzi888 · 11/07/2021 09:46

Do you need a blood test to determine if it’s menopause?

Bryonyshcmyony · 11/07/2021 09:52

@Suzi888

Do you need a blood test to determine if it’s menopause?
I didn't have one. I had a long and depressing list of symptoms.