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Menopause

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HRT is a lifestyle medication

73 replies

HeyJackKerouac · 15/01/2021 16:19

This was said to me by a GP this week and I've been thinking about it ever since. I wanted to discuss HRT as I've been having some distressing symptoms: anxiety, insomnia, aches, hot flushes, night sweats. I really don't feel like myself.

Anyway, I know I have some contraindications to HRT so I'm in 2 minds about it. There is a history of breast cancer in close family plus hormonal contraception triggers bad migraines for me.

GP felt HRT was not right for me due to this and then finished the consultation with the cheery sign off that "HRT is really a lifestyle medication" The more I think about this the angrier I get. I am really affected by symptoms right now; this is not a lifestyle choice!

Advice was to give up coffee, booze, lose some weight. Yawn!

Anyone got any other suggestions??

OP posts:
Newgirls · 16/01/2021 13:38

It’s not helpful to cite the experiences of women in their 60s plus because medicine and hrt continues to change and evolve.

Women prescribed it today will be on dif products.

borntobequiet · 16/01/2021 14:25

Some of us in our 60s still need HRT. It’s unusual, but not all menstrual cycles cease in one’s 50s.

(In my case, prescribed by the leading NHS menopause clinic.)

CaraDuneRedux · 16/01/2021 15:53

Re. medical need, my first appointment with my physio for my bursitis, one of the first questions she asked was "Are you on HRT?" then "Oh, good," when I said I was.

With my mother's history of osteoarthritis, including in her spine, they are going to have to prise my HRT out of my cold dead hands. The benefits to my musculo-skeletal system given my own medical history and family history mean that it's a really, really necessary drug for me.

(It also sorts the hot flushes, insomnia, brain fog and general knackeredness - it's a wonder drug).

Newgirls · 16/01/2021 16:00

Born - I hope you get it reviewed regularly. So many new products and formulations with reduced risks now 👍

Ffsseriously · 16/01/2021 18:34

@JinglingHellsBells thank you that is really clear and helpful Smile and don't let the rude ones get you down.

Applejack87 · 17/01/2021 09:28

I’ve been reading your experiences & I find it all so confusing , I haven’t had a period for a year & a half & I’m starting to feel like an old woman when I wake up in the morning my joints are stiff it takes a few mins to get going , if I have a long walk my knees feel stiff , I don’t sleep well etc I have spoken to my Dr she did full bloods all normal .

My mum suffered with arthritis in her knees that eventually she could barely walk she also had vascular dementia .
I don’t smoke I have a drink occasionally but I’d like to try HRT , when I mentioned it to one Dr she said oh no follow a healthy life style , exercise and take a vit D this is unacceptable that a Dr could take away our choice .

My aunt is 85 and has been taking HRT for over 30 years she said it’s the best thing ever she’s sprightly lives independantly does all her own decorating ok she could be lucky but she had to stop taking it all once & said she felt like an old lady aches & pains everywhere .

I appreciate HRT doesn’t suit everyone but estrogen is a very important hormone & I feel that we should all have a choice .

RosesAndHellebores · 17/01/2021 09:39

Something that was well it for me was seeing a consultant gynaecologist who reviewed the HRT I was on and my risk factors for esteoporosis and recommended a lower dose with more modern versions (tablets and patches) and gave me the confidence to keep requesting it years beyond symptoms.

However in my case I had two osteoporotic fractures at 56 despite the HRT and am now ona regime of zolendronate which has worked well vis the osteoporosis but makes the protective factors of the hrt unnecessary.

Family history of osteoporosis and recovered anorexic so pretty high up there. Osteoporosis well controlled and no long lasting effects from the badly wedged L1.

C8H10N4O2 · 17/01/2021 10:05

Saw a different lady GP about 4 years in who said "I'll prescribe it, but if you were to cut down work you could probably manage without it". I responded along the lines of and why should I ask a professional woman cut down on work due to the menopause and why shouldn't every woman be able to have optimal treatment so they are as well as possible whether they work or not

I had exactly that experience more than once, although in my case they were both male.

I asked if they would expect a man of my age, in my job, to cut down work rather than take medication for a treatable condition and where there were no contraindications. One just looked dumbstruck and the other was flustered enough to say he hadn't realised I did a "serious job". Being a mere woman an' all.

A woman doctor I saw (young enough to be my daughter) suggested I try listening to whale music instead of HRT to relax me enough to manage symptoms myself. This was earlier on when I actually thought I was going insane with cognitive symptoms. I had already ticked her "lifestyle" boxes and she had run out of ideas which didn't involved HRT.

I could write a full comedy stand up routine on my experiences navigating health care with "wimmins problems" if it wasn't so damned tragic for the millions of women who have no choice but to put up with it.

JinglingHellsBells · 17/01/2021 10:54

There is a new book in the offing
The Great Menopause Scandal by Kate Muir and she is also producing a documentary on it for Ch 4.

I assume it's about the dire experiences women have had.
Hopefully we are the last generation of women to be treated so badly by an under-educated medical profession (with some exceptions.)

JinglingHellsBells · 17/01/2021 10:59

@RosesAndHellebores I'm sorry you have osteo. Do you mind me asking...

Did you know you had low bone density before you had a fracture? Did you have 'preventative' DEXA scans early in peri meno based on your family history or risk factors?
Did you ever have routine DEXA scans every 2-3 years to monitor the benefits of HRT before your fracture?

(none of this is a criticism, just a question.)

My own story is I had low bone density very young- before menopause- and no risk factors other than being small.
I was able to stop it getting serious by a combination of measures and it's why I've used HRT for so long although HRT was prescribed for menopause symptoms not my bones. I have regular scans. There is a dose of HRT necessary to protect bones so going lower is going to lessen any improvement .

C8H10N4O2 · 17/01/2021 13:43

Hopefully we are the last generation of women to be treated so badly by an under-educated medical profession (with some exceptions.)

Would be good but I'm not optimistic considering the level of systemic sexism in medicine and cuts and fragmentation in health care seem to have made that worse in recent years rather than better.

I thought my generation would be the last to suffer with endometriosis being dismissed as "part of being a women, stop whining" when i was crippled with pain. One of the DC went through the same dismissal but I was in a position to get better treatment, most women don't have that opportunity.

RosesAndHellebores · 17/01/2021 13:43

I'll try to answer your questions @JinglingHellsBells.

As a little background my grandmother had a dowagers hump from her mid 70s although never formally diagnosed and never complained of any pain. She was in her mid 70s in the mid 80s. Mother developed back problems and joint issues in her mid 40s and was diagnosed in her late 40s/early50s and was put on calcium and also took HR. It is relevant that mother was a trained ballerina and professional dancer, due to wear and tear but also due to a life time of meeting weight bearing exercise. Mother is now 84 and apart from a little arthritis is as as fit as a fiddle. Noting also she is a hypochondriac and I vowed never ever to breathe a word of my own menopause. She has never had a broken bone - we would have known. Both grannie and mother were/are small - 4'11 and 5'3 respectively but not small boned.

I am 5'7" and equally large boned, (broad shoulders/hips). In my 20s I lived on the edge of an eating disorder and probably was anorexic but not diagnosed at 25/27 when I was under 7st7lb - then it's a bit hazy because I was diagnosed with Graves disease at 30 and suspect I had had it for some time because even when I ate better in my 20s it was very hard to stay above 8st/7lb. If only the same were true now. So three big risk factors.

In 2015 at 55 I had a fall and twisting my foot fractured the 5th metatarsal. Outpatients regarded it as a low impact fracture and referred me for a dexa scan which identified osteoporosis in my hips and lower back. Not horrendous but beyond osteopenic. I started oral bisphosphonates. 6 months later I had a bad fall, at I think quite high velocity, on slippery and frozen ground - I do not think it wasnlow impact but it was classed as such by medics. I wedged by more than 50% my L1 the tip of which angles onto the spinal canal meaning kyphoplasty for example was out of the question.

Because I insisted 8bdays later, dr referred me to a neurologist (same old - we don't usually refer unless pain hasn't resolbed in 10 weeks; ah what's the waiting time, oh about 10 weeks. So I had to respond "I have a professional job, are you suggesting I am potentially on sick leave for 20 weeks, receiving public money for doing nothing and may then lose my job and stop funding the NHS through taxation". Cobbily referred me but again an example of zero understanding about the importance of women working and paying tax for society.

As it was referral came through in a week and I saw a marvellous neurologist Miss Ann Mitchener. She organised further XRays and an MRI - it really helped to know exactly what I'd done and have a report re the rest of the spine which had a bit of wear and tear around L4/5. She got me referrednto a rheumatologist at a London teaching hospital where I started annual infusions of zolendronate for optimal treatment. After three years the osteoporosis returned normal readings and I am now on maintenance zolendronate every 18 months. Have had one so far with another due April.

I think it's worth mentioning that the NHS wanted to sign me off for 4 weeks over the foot and prescribe o-codamol. I had half a day off work and took four paracetamol on the first day.

Re the back on day 8 GP wanted to sign me off for 3 weeks in first instance. I was off work for 9 working days. The first week it was excruciating but the next day I had to get myself to the GP for a prescription which I did using a mini cab and walked to the pharmacy and got a cab from there. TBF not sure how I got myself off the bed and upright that day but knew I had to. Had 30/500 co-codamol for the first week with 500 naproxen night and morning. The first 3/4 days were hard. By day 6 I was gingerly loading and unloading the washing machine. On day 6 DH drove me to work to collect my car and I drove it home OK. By day 7 I was doing dd's school runs and gentle housework. Day 15 I returned to work. After e weeks tapered off the cocodamol but took narrowness for about 8 weeks.

Apologies for going on but the pain resolved quickly and mobility was quick to return but I am convinced it was because I fought through the pain and stayed mobile and therefore kept my spirits up. Also had some private physio and started a regular pilates regime. Still do three exercises every morning.

Came off HRT when zolendronate started on dr's advice.

I am sorry it's long but hope it was helpful. Something that really supported me was a backpack thread led by @MathildaTheCat - not sure if she's still around but she was bloody wonderful.

Hope you are OK BTW.

RosesAndHellebores · 17/01/2021 13:49

Apologies for typos - on phone and in a bubble bath! Hope you can get the sense.

JinglingHellsBells · 17/01/2021 13:57

That's interesting @RosesAndHellebores. The reason I asked was there have been some posters here saying they knew women who took HRT and still got osteoporosis.

My question around that was that HRT can't always put enough bone density back, if it's started too late, if the dose is too low, or if it's stopped too soon. Drs talk about using HRT for at least 10 years to get good bone results and bone density will decline like any other woman's once it stops.

Pleased you seem to be okay now.

midlifecrash · 17/01/2021 14:02

Lifestyle my arse. I'd have ended up losing my job without HRT - couldn't think, couldn't sleep. Took three or four goes to get GP to refer me to a doctor who would prescribe, as he kept going on about "homeopathic remedies" (he meant herbal) and eventually said he didn't know about these treatments and would send me to see a "lady doctor". Thank god I'm on it now. Persist and if you don't get anywhere complain.

RosesAndHellebores · 17/01/2021 14:04

@JinglingHellsBells I suspect had I not had HRT the osteoporosis may have revealed itself earlier due to the risk factors.

C8H10N4O2 · 17/01/2021 14:07

I'd have ended up losing my job without HRT

Yes I couldn't have kept up my work without it. But then you have to remember, we only do laydee jobs so that doesn't really matter.

midlifecrash · 17/01/2021 14:16

I think we should be given a lot more information about menopause - I had no intention of taking HRT, thought menopause is just part of life and it will be fine. I'm sure for some women it is. If I had wanted to manage it naturally I would have had to have started planning a good ten years earlier to try to work myself into a shorter hours role - without sacrificing too much income. That's assuming I would have been okay with changing role/ career, which was not something I wanted to do.

oneglassandpuzzled · 17/01/2021 14:17

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quickkimchi · 17/01/2021 15:08

I told a pain management specialist (referred for specific back problem) that I had other more generalised joint pain and had asked the GP for a trial of HRT to see if it had an effect. He told me HRT was addictive and caused osteoporosis.

When challenged, he backpedaled a bit (I could hear him googling 'osteoporosis + HRT') but insisted one of his patients was still taking it in her 80s or 90s (I guess this is what he thought made her addicted?).

Taking meds for a long period is not the defining feature of addiction. I took it to mean they were working well for her and she had had none of the catastrophic side effects (breast cancer, stroke etc) I keep hearing about when being warned off.

I know this doesn't answer your question OP, I just wanted to commiserate. I've spoken about HRT to three female GPs in my surgery and they keep putting me off. I really want well-informed treatment from someone who isn't so tentative about it so I haven't pushed.

Newgirls · 17/01/2021 15:25

Jingling - the documentary looks timely - thx will look out for it

Oblomov20 · 17/01/2021 15:26

What an awful thing for a GP to say! Angry

incychloe · 14/01/2022 13:15

Help!!
I am post Menopause, 2 years ago used the patch from GP., this was fantastic for sleeping and hot flushes, however I started to get strong facial hair on chin ,neck jawline, so after 1 year the Dr gave me Oestrogel gel 80 grams and Utrogestan tablet 100mg. telling me to use 1 pump of gel & 1 tablet for 25 days, then just the gel 1 pump for 3 days followed by both again for 25 etc etc.. I feel so dreadful (all heavy period symptoms) when going back on the tablet and wondered if there's a different way??, when I ask GP they say the beauty is you can play around with doses to suit you, add another pump see what suits, however I have had period like symptoms. The hair growth is still terrible, I just don't know how to adjust my medication to help. Thanks I welcome any support.

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