Herbal supplements making symptoms worse?

[CandyMama]

Hi, it may well be coincidence but I'm sure my hot flushes have got worse since I started taking Black Cohosh, Sage and Soy Extracts. Anyone experienced the same?

I'm 51 and on the mini pill so haven't had a period for years and no idea where I am with the menopause. Have probably been Peri since last year, sleep has got worse and nagging anxiety. Up until recently taking a Piriton before bed helped with sleep and anxiety was better then bang.. about 6 weeks ago can't sleep again and waking up boiling hot at 4pmm_.

Spoke to female GP who like all the others at my surgery is dead against HRT and says it should only be used as a last resort 'when your family bring you in and say do something as your moods are so bad' or ' you are sweating so much from hot flushes your blouse at work is soaked through' Instead they are very keen to prescribe anti depressants or blood pressure tablets to control hot flushes neither of which I want to take. Therefore thought I'd try the natural route but on week 3 of taking Black Cohosh, Sage and Soy extract everyday I'm now getting hot flushes throughout the day too.

Could well be that my hormones are just going crazy but the sudden onset makes me wonder if the supplements are to blame. What do you think?

I think your GP is totally wrong, and like many other GP's, they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about when it comes to peri and menopause.

Stop wasting time with them, (I did), and see a specialist.

I felt much worse on St John's Wort. I'm honestly happier on Estraderm 50 patches.

Spoke to female GP who like all the others at my surgery is dead against HRT and says it should only be used as a last resort'

This ^^ is against NICE guidelines. I had to read them out to my GP. I also had to really insist on a referral to a gynae for a fibroid so big I could feel it in my uterine wall by palpation. I got the gynae to write in support of HRT (although he'd already caved in by then).

The transdermal patches and gels are safe.

Your GP is not practising within NICE guidelines. I suggest you wrote them to her and re-request HRT, if you choose to go down that route of course.

Quote* (and cross post with pp).

I totally agree Aqua I think the GPs attitude is disgraceful but just wanted to try herbal supplements first as it's really only the hotness that is getting to me at the moment. It's gone from nothing to full on furnace almost overnight. Also begrudge paying out for a specialist as GP should be able to help me. Annoying!

What a totally ridiculous response from your GP.

How is it that so many of the world's top gynaes and menopause specialists are pro HRT (and the female drs take it themselves) yet GPs are like this?

As above- don't waste your time.

They are very much out of date with guidance from NICE and it's disgusting they speak to you like this.

The whole thrust of the NICE guidance is that GPs talk to patients and prescribe what will help them and HRT is FIRST line treatment, not Ads or alternatives.

But you said you also had anxiety and poor sleep in your first post.

If you want to convince your GP then print off the Nice guidance- pinned at the top of this forum- and argue with her .

Thanks for your replies. You're confirming what I already thought re GP.

Can I take the oestrogen part of HRT and stay on mini pill does anyone know?

Therefore thought I'd try the natural route but on week 3 of taking Black Cohosh, Sage and Soy extract everyday I'm now getting hot flushes throughout the day too.

There is no evidence that any of these things work- the herbal route. IF they did, they'd be prescribed and/ or all women needing help would use them.

The most likely reason for your increase in flushes is that's what happens as your own estrogen falls further.

As for 'natural- modern HRT is made from yams. So it's just as natural as the herbs you are using.

You CAN stay in the mini pill as the progesterone part of HRT BUT you really need an expert/ consultant to manage that because the normal dose of the mini pill is too low to be part of HRT. My consultant suggested the mini pill as the progesterone side of HRT when I wanted to swap from Northisterone but I went onto Utrogestan instead (also made from yams!)
Depending on which mini pill you might need to take 3 in a day- so you need advice.

Have a look on the menopause support and the menopause doctor websites.

menopausesupport.co.uk/?page_id=2

www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/

Women who still have their womb must be prescribed oestrogen and progesterone to protect the womb lining. And the GPs should be prescribing HRT for women with menopause symptoms as outlined in the NHS guidance, so your GP is talking rubbish.

Menopause clinics are pricey and it costs a couple of hundred pounds just for a consultation.... a blood test also costs over a hundred quid!

Ten Things your Doctor should know about Menopause

menopausesupport.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/10-Things-Your-Doctor-Should-Know-About-Menopause-BLOG.docx

Frequently asked questions about HRT and menopause

menopausesupport.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/MSNFAQFINAL-1.pdf

Contraception during the Menopause and Perimenopause

d2931px9t312xa.cloudfront.net/menopausedoctor/files/information/455/Contraception%20during%20menopause.pdf

I meant NICE guidance not NHS...

Go back to your GP and demand your rights. Menopause can be really debilitating. Without oestrogen gel & a coil with progesterone I’d be in a horrific state physically and mentally.

Why on earth is it so difficult to get appropriate care from the GP when it comes to menopause.
My mum is currently going through it, the sweats, anxiety, forgetfulness, not sleeping, dented the car about 6 times, always falling over.
She went to the GP about a dozen times and was given the antidepressants and beta blockers. She had to pretty much have a breakdown before they would give her HRT and even then it's getting blood out of a stone if the pharmacist can ever get it in.
How would she find a specialist?
Looking at my female family history I'm doomed for the same fate.

@zippityzip There’s no need to see a specialist look at the links I’ve posted above.

Unfortunately it’s a lack of education and awareness around the menopause.

If after that you want to see one search menopause clinic for your local area. It’s pricey though.

This is why campaigns like this are important

www.change.org/p/penny-mordaunt-mp-make-menopause-matter-in-healthcare-the-workplace-and-education-makemenopausematter

GPs need more training and more awareness of the menopause needs raising in the work place and society in general

@zippityzip also there’s been issues with there being a shortage of the patches I think there hasn’t been any problems with the gels and sprays so if she’s on patches perhaps switch to a gel or spray

@zippityzip I've got some Estradot 75 patches going spare (estrogen only) if that's any help.

Or to anyone else? Happy to post. My treat (so to speak ...).

Thanks for all the replies and advice. It's really depressing that depending on your GP you may have to fight for even the choice to go on HRT.

I'm very lucky, I've got private healthcare through work and I've just called them. Although they don't cover treatment for the menopause ( as it's not a chronic condition ) they put me in touch with a private GP who has already called and given me a referral to a gynaecologist for a diagnosis which is covered.

Anyone recommendations for one in South Essex?

if you go to the British Menopause Society website the Home page menu shows Specialists - will take you to a map and names.

Black cohosh can be quite strong, and I wouldn't take it while on the mini pill! Soy is also estrogenic, so if your hormones are in flux AND you're on the pill, you'll have no idea what your baseline levels are and whether you need estrogenic supplementation. Fermented soy is also a much better version if you're going down that route. You're obviously experiencing menopause but from my limited knowledge of herbs, it sounds like they might be contraindicated and causing some of your problems, and giving your liver a lot to process!