Talk to me about the bone crushing tiredness of menopause

[TheMarbleFaun]

I seem to be permanently knackered - never get enough sleep & I feel like every afternoon I need to take a nap - is this normal?
Are there any supplements I could try ( or any other tips) ?
For info I’m 47 and been on HRT about 3 months (Elleste duet 1mg)
Thanks in advance!

Can I get natural micronised progesterone on the nhs? I was told that I could only have oestrogen gel if I had a mirena (though I was given that advice quite a long time ago).

Yes of course you can though I've read there is some difference in it being available in Scotland or Wales. Loads of women are using it from the NHS.

You can also use gel with any separate progestogen so that also includes Norethisterone, though most GPs won't know this or the dose.

I don't understand how more estrogen causes issues like poor sleep because women who are pregnant and have HUGE levels of estrogen usually feel great. Isn't it more likely it was a peri symptom- ie insomnia?

3 months is the minimum time for HRT to work and in peri it can be longer.

Thanks, JinglingHellsBells I will look into that.

I didn't sleep well at all during my two pregnancies.

My main and most debilitating symptoms has been a sense of over alertness. It leads to tinnitus, buzzing, lightheadness, pins and needles and the part that affects my sleep, mental over stimulation. All these symptoms were worse during hrt. I am gradually feeling better as going longer without a period.

I also hardly suffer from hot flushes. Some occasional nightsweats but nothing like most menopause women experience.

As said, we all go through that stage in our life with different experiences.

@swing It sounds as if you used HRT very early on during peri perhaps.
I didn't start hrt till after my last period and was into my 50s, and my estrogen was low.

I don't think so, my periods started to go out of kilt 6 years ago, then 3 years ago, went 4 months with no period twice. When I started hrt, I had been without a proper period for 6 months.

I've now been without a period for 18 months but I think I going to give it a try again because of the sleep issue even though it made no difference last time. I am trying continuous this time femoston as I believe the progesterone is the kindest and read the reported best improvement in sleep with this one. If that fails and sleep is no better or worse, I will accept hrt is not for me.

@swing Utrogestan is the body-identical type, more so than dydrogesterone (in Femoston) but people either love or hate it.

Hope you find something to help.

I have found my people! Years ago, I remember reading that some huge percentage of menopausal women consider giving up work and I thought gosh that seems a bit extreme just because your periods stop. Hah!!!! Now I know.

The only thing I've found which really helps with the fatigue (sorry to state the flipping obvious) is sleep. I listened to a ted talk about menopause (naturally can't remember her name but she was wearing a red dress!) which said menopausal women and teenagers need the same amount of sleep.

So for example yesterday I slept 11 hours - 7 hours at night, a 2 hour morning nap and a 2 hour afternoon nap. Luckily I freelance and my DC are at school (used to home ed) but honestly I don't know what I'd do if I wasn't freelance. It's crap and there should be more help for women in work at this age.

Today after all that sleep I feel pretty good and managed to power through a whole lot of work - yesterday was another story - felt that real bone crushing tiredness - it's awful. So my advice is just listen to your body and try to fit in sleep when you need it, whatever it takes. to you all

Signing in. Almost started my own thread on this today as I am feeling just so exhausted I was wondering if I was pregnant (I'm not).
I'm 52 and been on HRT for about 3 years...been having a monthly bleed despite continuous progesterone until recently. It's been 2 months since my last one and I am feeling worse than ever in terms of tiredness, weepiness and anxiety.

And brain fog! Today I got to work, logged in and was just overwhelmed by exhaustion and mental fog. I have no idea what to do (today, short term) as we are incredibly busy and I have a list as long as my arm of things to do that all need some mental alertness but my brain is full of cotton wool.

I don't drink caffeine or alcohol so I can't blame those or improve by giving them up!

Just to add, it's so bad that I genuinely feel that I can't work but what on earth would I say to my manager? I don't think she'd get it.

@JinglingHellsBells the AD''s were prescribed for depression about 10 years ago not for peri symptoms. One of the symptoms of meno can be depression and given that, when I tried to reduce and stop my AD last year over a course of 3-4 months I experienced symptoms worse than when I first went on them, I decided that it would probably help to stay on them. I haven't been prescribed AD to help with the menopause.

Mostineptthateverstopped can't you invent a stomach bug and head home for the afternoon? Obviously in an ideal world there'd be lovely corporate policies (work from home, flexible working, whatever) in place for menopause related ailments like there are for pregnancy related illnesses but I reckon we're probably about 20 years away from that so morally you'd be on sound ground in my opinion!!!!

Thanks for the reply Wordsmith, that's not a bad idea. I'll see how I feel after lunch, maybe I'll develop a bad headache 😂

@Blobby10

No one ought to be on ADs for 10 years. The research shows they are ineffective often if taken long term. You ought to be offered talking therapies (counselling or CBT) to get to the root of your mental health issues. There is huge concern, nationally, about the amount of people using ADs when they ought to be prescribed other measures, like talking therapies, exercise ( as good as ADs for mild-moderate depression) and walking in groups in green spaces. All of this is on MIND's website.

On the other hand, the point was that peri can last 10 years or more, so depending on your age now, it could have been hormonal depression all along.

@Blobby10

THis is the NHS advice on depression which includes lots of strategies not just drugs.

Is your GP not offering you these?
www.nhs.uk/conditions/clinical-depression/treatment/

@JinglingHellsBells I hadn't realised that research tbh. My doctor always said that as it was such a small dose I could happily stay on them for years and not worry. The depression was triggered by a traumatic emotional event and definitely not hormonal. I'm only 50 now and was tested for peri at 40 and 43 (I wasn't peri!) . However thank you for your insight - its always interesting hearing other points of view

@Blobby10 Reactive depression- ie an emotional response to an event- can be helped by counselling. Have you had any help to come to terms with the event which triggered it? Using drugs just blanks out/ dumbs down the emotions, it doesn't deal with the underlying cause or help you face them or come to terms with whatever happened.

Have you ever had professional counselling or CBT to try to help with it?

Maybe it is something you could explore for yourself if you can find a good psychotherapist?

Mingling I'm currently in Belgium. I asked about HRT last year and was told they don't prescribe it here. I could go again and ask, but am moving back to the UK in October, so might have more luck with a UK GP.

@scaryteacher

Really ?

That's weird. Who told you that?

The irony is that both the items I use as HRT are manufactured in Belgium ! And just next door in France they are way ahead of the UK in terms of menopause health and using HRT- some very big research trials were done there (on teachers as it happens.)

@scaryteacher

I was so intrigued by your comment that I've just done a quick google. Belgium certainly does prescribe HRT and one research paper says they are 'high prescribers of HRT' [Belgium.]

Go onto google and enter the search terms and you will see.

Someone is telling you porkies

I think that I am peri...bloody hope so. WEll over 50. At the same time I have started being very tired, and wak8ng very early. Until last week, when DH suggested the light wasn’t helping.its never dark here. He suggested I use a large headband/buff thing as an eye mask. Looks very sexy I am sure, but I have been sleeping till 630/7 am and feeling better for it. Worth a try?

Jingling The bloody Belgian Doctor told me that when I sat across the desk from her last year. I said I was perimenopausal, had night sweats, hot flushes etc, and was there a chance of HRT to help and was given a frowning look and a flat refusal.

Mind you, they don't allow gas and air here when you give birth - it's a epidural or nothing, and they euthanise children, so as I say, I'll wait til I move back to UK in October, and see what the NHS can do for me.

I am in the Flemish part, so it may be different from the French part or German part of Belgium...different rules in the same country depending where you live.

@scaryteacher

Have a google.

There is a research paper on the high rates of breast cancer in Belgium and the research is whether it's linked to the high use of HRT.
They mention several areas of Belgium so I don't think there is an HRT-free zone!

Your dr was lying.

Jingling That could be why she said no then. Don't see why she would lie, as our healthcare is private and won't cost the state anything.

It was simply one research paper - you can find it if you google.
It doesn't mean HRT is not prescribed any more in Belgium.

The research threw up lots of questions and it wasn't necessarily accurate.