Women who have been through meno without HRT

[Sarcelle]

I am on my "journey" without HRT. Symptoms fairly mild/manageable.

I was surprised to read somewhere that only 20% of women take HRT. So lots who don't. My question is about the effects of getting through it without HRT - what happens to you after meno?

I have read loads about the meno (it's confusing!) but there seems to be a suggestion that you should be on HRT, not necessarily to ease horrendous symptoms, but to maintain good health afterwards - because of hardening of the arteries, osteoporosis etc.

So are lots of women post meno who did not/are not on HRT ill and feeling crap all the time with a myriad of complaints?

I think I am looking for evidence that you can thrive, age well, feel great after meno without having taken HRT.

Thank you @QueenoftheNights for your posts, and your advice on the menopause board. It was MN and reading about HRT that persuaded me to visit my GP a couple of years ago and ask for HRT. It was a life saver for me. I had horrendous symptoms, sweats, anxiety, racing heart, leaky bladder, lack of sleep etc. After two months on HRT I was back to my best self.

I have a mother in her nineties who still gets hot flushes and is in constant pain with osteoporosis. Her bones are so easy to break, and she's miserable with life and has been for a long time. I have a sister ten years older than me who didn't take HRT who isn't doing very well either, so I am determined to stay on HRT for life. I might be ok f I came off if in a few years, but I'm not taking the risk.

So pleased you have had some improvement :)

I watched the menopause program & it was interesting. I have never liked cows milk much due to how it separates so drink soya, this apparently can help menopause.

I exercise regularly, mostly cardio but some resistance

It seems to help if I cycle for an hour I sleep very well

I just watched Trinny Woodall podcast on the menopause which had the co founder of Victoria Health. Leaving aside they were highlighting some products from the website, the guy who is medically qualified but with an interest in supplements, explained peri and meno very clearly. I learnt more from him about the whole menopausal process than I have done schlepping through the myriad of other info available.

Trinny is annoying and of course money is no object to her so she can buy all these expensive supplements, but she asked him questions that I wanted to ask him.

One thing he said is that he does not recommend soya. Fermented soy is different. He said lots of soya over a long period of time can affect your thyroid and that we had been misled years ago about soya as a symptom easer for the menopause.

This is very interesting thread - I'm 51 next year and my periods are fairly regular, albeit with a shortened cycle sometimes (21~25 days).

I have a small fibroid, and my gynae thinks that this is what is making me anaemic (my iron levels are on the floor and I'm taking supplements at the moment).

I live in Japan and have been here almost all my adult life (27 years), and it seems to be true that my Japanese women friends do not suffer quite as much with peri/meno symptoms, like hot flushes etc.
My western friends who live a more ex-pat lifestyle, DO suffer more.

I do in fact consume quite a lot of fermented soy - miso soup 3 or 4 times a week, natto (fermented soy beans) a couple times a week, so I'm hoping that it will protect me a bit.

My OBGYN (the system here is to go to a specialist rather than a GP) promotes HRT as well as Chinese herbal remedies for menopause, so I'm going to see what she suggests when and if I need something more.

My understanding on soy ( your post is interesting!) is that the jury is still out on it.

In men, too much soy can promote breast development or have feminising effects ( the men in my family used to use soy due to dairy intolerance but stopped after these reports.)

In women there is a suspicion that for women who have had breast cancer, soy could promote growth again.

Personally I feel the whole issue is very complex; the recent book on estrogen and BC 'Estrogen Matters' (Dr Avrum Blooming- who is speaking on the video I linked to, down this forum) says his research shows estrogen does not cause BC and may even reduce the risks (and indeed my menopause consultant says the same.)

One factor is def obesity in the west - compared to japan.

In Japan, weigh-ins happen in the work place and employers can face financial penalties for being overweight. There are cultural pressures on staying slim and there is no 'fat shaming' - or rather there is, but in a positive way to make sure people don't become obese.

In the video I linked to, it shows that in the normal female population, 23:1000 women will get BC. This more than doubles - another 25:1000 - if women are overweight (BMI 25+.)

Yet for women on some types of HRT there are only 4 more cases.

And for women on estrogen-only HRT there are 4 FEWER cases, compared with the baseline population (women not on any HRT.)

So, maybe soy does some good, but maybe the dominant factor comparing Japan and the West, is weight and drinking; some Asians are not on the whole able to metabolise alcohol (genetically) so they drink far less.

My mother sailed through menopause. Never took even any supplements and she even smoked until she was in her 70s. She's always been slim and never had osteoperosis.

I, on the other hand, will give up my HRT when you prise it from my cold, dead fingers.

Queen yep you are right about obesity- it is still pretty rare in Japan to be overweight.
They do say that the increased western diet is making it an issue but literally none of my Japanese friends are overweight.
Neither am I! But I’m increasingly cutting down on carbs (sugars) because they make me feel sluggish.

I'm in Belgium - went to see the GP as the hot flushes/night sweats and insomnia are a PITA. I was told that they don't do HRT here, and I just had to suck it up. I am now at 95 days without a period.

I might go back and see if I can be referred to a gynae, as they may be more helpful.

Queen it was my 30s age female GP who was very firm that I couldn't take HRT. She said HRT only postpones menopausal symptoms. I saw an older female GP who prescribed it for me. I took the first tablet and within 2 hours had the worst migraine of my life. Worse than the pain when I had meningitis. I had to be taken home from work and the 2nd GP told me never to take it again. The 1st GP at my next appointment reiterated that was why she had refused to prescribe it despite looking at the possible HRT options

*it was my 30s age female GP who was very firm that I couldn't take HRT. She said HRT only postpones menopausal symptoms(.

She's incorrect on so many fronts. It's actually quite shocking that a dr can spout stuff like this! Read around it, learn about it and you will see how she is wrong.

You can't postpone the menopause. When your eggs are gone they are gone, regardless of HRT or not.

The fact you had a migraine when you took one tablet doesn't mean you should not use HRT. It could have been the dose, the type, the mode of delivery (you could have pill, patch or gel...) .

In all honesty I'd not stick with a GP like that because they don't know what they are talking about. Have a look at some of the specialist sites by other meno experts and see for yourself.

So what you are saying is that a rather inexperienced GP does not prescribe HRT at all - to anyone? Is that what she says to all women? Disgraceful.

Dulcefarniente This is from the website of Dr Louise Newson, GP and meno specialist. Just for the record and other women reading your gps comments

Myths about menopause
HRT delays the menopause
FALSE

Many women avoid taking HRT as they think that when they stop taking it they will then have their menopause then. Any symptoms you might experience after stopping HRT are menopausal symptoms you would have experienced even if you had never taken HRT. [A caveat here is that you may experience oestrogen “withdrawal” symptoms if you suddenly stop your HRT without speaking to your doctor (it is best to reduce your dose and come off slowly). However, these are temporary and – if they occur – should only last for a couple of weeks at the very most.] Without HRT, many women have menopausal symptoms for more than a decade and some women still have hot flushes when they are over 75 years old.

Queen are you on commission from HRT manufacturers

Queen - are you Polly?

Has any research indeed looked at why Japonese women seem to suffer less from menopausal symptoms than others beyond looking at soy, and indeed looking at a correlation wiyh alcohol and obesity? I don't drink alcohol at all and am a healthy weight. I do get some hot flushes but they are infrequent and mild. My issues are much more neurological.

If only we could all take oestrogen only hrt! It's the progesterone I couldn't bare and led me to stop it. Can't even try continuous yet as still have the occasional tiny spotting every 4 or 5 months.

Accepting symptoms though goes a long way in coping with it. Anxiety linked with feeling out of control and worried of something serious alone can make symptoms much worse. I do think cbt has its place in the management of the menopause for some women.

dulcefarniente

It's funny what meno does to people isn't it?

I come along offering some information intended to be helpful and all I get is a sarcy comment and a PA smile
rather than a 'Oh thanks, that's helpful and interesting.'

No I am not on commission. I am a medical writer/ author who researches and talks to consultants in order to do what I do. I like to think what I share here might be helpful for women, given the huge lack of knowledge amongst GPs.

But hey ho- why bother?

Like many others I was intending to go through meno without HRT (I don't know why) and in fact got to two years post meno very well with a carefully managed diet and strict exercise regime. However, the night sweats didn't settle and I was getting no sleep. I also had some joint pain, general stiffness and slow to recover from viruses and from strenuous exercise.
I started a bio-identical HRT programme in May, which now, with a bit of tweaking around the mode of delivery, is working well for me. I have oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone and DHEA. I see a specialist privately because IME your average GP knows little or nothing about HRT, including the need to personalise it.
Only around 15% of women in the UK take HRT and many more could benefit. You can remain on it until death. I can see the difference in my blood test results as well as feel it in my body. If you don't need it because your symptoms are negligible or manageable that's brilliant, but don't fear it or feel you have somehow failed if you end up taking it. I felt better within days.

I'm late 50s and haven't had a period for several years. I don't take HRT or any supplements. I get night sweats and during the week sleep in the spare room where I sleep better (window stays open all night, I can throw off the covers if I need to, and there is no other body heat to have to avoid).

I do get tired and, according to my husband, I get grumpy, but as I work full-time and am out of the house for 13-14 hours a day that is hardly surprising).

I have always had an aversion to taking any medication that is not absolutely essential. I hold my mother responsible for this, as she was prescribed Thalidomide when she was pregnant with my older sister, and refused to take it. I never wanted to mess around with hormones and, apart from a brief period of 3 months, never took the pill.

So I always wanted to avoid HRT if I could. In addition, my mother had breast cancer and I am overweight, so did not want to add in any risk factors. Fortunately I don't drink or smoke, and I breastfed for 3.5 years, so I hope that will work in my favour.

On the whole, I feel very lucky that I do not need HRT.

Queen - are you Polly

Very familiar posting style eh, brizzledrizzle 😬

Very familiar posting style eh, brizzledrizzle

I am sure there is more than one woman with information and knowledge about HRT. Above and beyond 'women, keep busy and you won't notice it' bullshit above.

And even if it was Polly, she disappeared because of the incessant bullying for - again - having knowledge about HRT that helps women not become frail and disabled. So now we have lost another woman who is giving information about HRT to other women.

I hope it makes you feel big and clever. Well done.

Pollys lectures about taking HRT put me of the menopause board. Many don’t want to for various reasons and I was interested that 80% don’t take HRT

If GPS no little about menopause then possibly more research and teachings first but not through drug companies

Studying Japanese woman not taking drugs but also not appearing to struggle through menopause may be more beneficial

A fascinating thread.

I am post-menopausal - three years and apart from a 10-week stint on kliofem, I have been HRT free.

I am not saying it works for everybody. However, for me, it has.

I do manage with diet and exercise. I received a bone scan at age 50 which came back as no evidence of thinning. I have a fibroid that is hopefully shrinking and while I'm plagued by night sweats, I do manage on the whole without.

It was a choice with my GP to go HRT-less as he stated that as I was healthy enough, there were no medical benefits from HRT.

My night sweats aren't getting any easier. I don't have joint pain, but wouldn't class this as a breeze. I started peri-menopause at age 36. And I have experienced some dreadful symptoms in the last 15 years.

But - I stand by my choice to go it alone. I have had my heart checked, low risk for heart disease. I am well enough on a daily basis to manage my symptoms and while I work, I'm able to get enough rest which is just as important as exercise.

Pollys lectures about taking HRT put me of the menopause board. Many don’t want to for various reasons and I was interested that 80% don’t take HRT

Well, not being funny - but it isn't your board.