Menopause without HRT?

[YukonGold]

Has anyone done this?
I’m 48 and currently peri menopausal, hot flushes, night sweats, very irregular periods, period pain for the first time in my life etc.
I’ve not been to a Dr for about 8 years (don’t have kids myself but OH does hence my being on Mumsnet!)
I can cope with my current symptoms but am wondering whether I can avoid HRT completely, has any one else done this?
Thanks!

Has this thread been moved here from another part of MN? (cos it wasn't here yesterday?)

One thing that I've picked up from the posts so far is that many women were/ are being denied HRT by their GPs for reasons that are invalid. This happens all the time. eg migraine. The Migraine Trust states clearly that HRT can be used with migraine (I've used it for 11 years and have had migraines since I was about 12.)

The same applies to women being denied it for breast and ovarian cancer in family history. It's rarely an issue except if you have the BRC gene.

Using HRT is a personal choice. But in my experience women use it when their quality of life is hopeless without it. In other words they suffer so much from lack of sleep, cannot cope with work or family issues which can all occur at menopause age.

If and when women use HRT they have usually tried every bloody thing first including diet, no booze, no caffeine, and every herbal thing on the market. These do not work for all women (inc me).

The symptoms of peri are one of issues of menopause. Once you are a few years past your last period other health risks increase due to loss of estrogen. These include heart disease, osteoporosis, joint problems, prolapse and vaginal atrophy. HRT/ Estrogen protects against all of these.

If you don't want to use HRT, make sure you are fully informed of the benefits as well as the small risks, is all I say! No medals for struggling on when there is something that can make you feel better and prevent other serious diseases.

I'm 53, and periods stopped completely 4 years ago. No HRT, I did speak to my doctor about using it when I was in the throes of a particularly busy phase of hot flushes and she explained it as something that just delays the process. In other words at some point you have to come off it and the symptoms return.

Honestly these drs ought to be struck off. This is incorrect.

HRT does not delay the menopause. The menopause continues with HRT because it's driven by loss of eggs. HRT works by controlling the symptoms. You do not have to come off HRT ever. You can take it for life. There are women in their 80s and 90s using it.

Some women find their symptoms come back if they stop HRT. Some find they don't. Some find they come back but not as bad. The point is even if they do come back and you decide not to use HRT again, you will still have had several years of better quality of life. and improved your long term bone density and heart health.

I could go through so many posts on this thread and point out the 'lies' GPs are telling women but I don't have time.

One of the best sites to read if you want a balanced and expert view is that of Dr Louise Newson.
www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/

I don't use it. I decided in advance to have a positive attitude, although obviously I have no idea whether that was helpful, or I was just lucky. Probably the latter.

I suppose I had about 10 hot flushes, each lasting about 60 seconds.

Can we not have just one menopause thread for people who don't want or can't use HRT?

And who moved the thread over here.

Yes I am sure that is possible.

But this is what the OP asked

*I can cope with my current symptoms but am wondering whether I can avoid HRT completely, has any one else done this?&

It's very hard not to respond when there are so many posts showing lack of knowledge from GPs which result in women being denied treatment.

To the PP who said she had a positive attitude and about 10 flushes. Well good for you! If all that was needed was a positive attitude.
I had about 20 flushes every day, every hour, and night after night of insomnia, bladder issues and low bone density. We'd all LOVE to do it 'naturally' but in many cases that just opens the door to a whole load of more serious health problems later down the line.

When I was debating whether to try hrt or not and read all I could on people's experience to inform myself I found there was many more threads suggesting the benefits of hrt and advice about it than getting through without it and that there is an overall trend that those opting not to use hrt do so through ignorance and that they are missing out. The regular advice when not successful is to try another regime, different dose etc...

Despite my symptoms I am much happier when not on it. Whatever research supposedly claimed hrt did make me put on weight and no it was the menopause as lost it all after stopping without changing my diet. I also hated the affect of the progesterone and no I didn't want to lower it to its minimum and then. Having to fight with my gp for a regular scan to check the thickness of my lining hoping all was OK.

All in all I found the management of hrt treatment very demanding and as such stressful anyway. I also found that my symptoms were exacerbated by stress so learning to manage my stress made it much easier to cope with the symptoms. Feeling in control of them and accepting them for what they are made a big difference in their impact.

I am very active, walk almost every day so hope to get enough vit D this way. If not I will ll take supplements.

hrt is a wonderful treatment and make the transition so much better for many women but it doesn't mean that those who opt not to go on it do so out of fear of the treatment or rather suffer martyrdom.

This is a balanced article from a dr on alternatives to HRT.

Always good to have a debate about the facts and myths to help make a choice.

www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/menopause/alternative-treatments-hrt

I found this article useful: www.drnorthrup.com/abcs-of-hrt/

That link is written by an American doctor. Most of the information in it is dated now, or contains outdated research, and uses terms that are no longer recognised in the UK ( ie 'bio-identical hormones').

Having had a good read of that link, I'm afraid it's nothing more than an advert for a) progesterone cream and b) bio-identical HRT. Neither of these is licensed or endorsed outside the US for treatment and in fact all reputable UK consultants will tell you to avoid at all costs.

Why would all reputable UK consultants will tell you to avoid them at all costs?

3 articles on 'bio identical' HRT.

Bear in mind that almost all US drs are working still with 20 yr old research from the WHI research. This has been discredited now. A lot of the HRT used in the US is the old type with horse urine .

wwwmenopausematters.blogspot.com/2017/01/bio-identicals.html

www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/menopause/body-identical-hormones

www.pms.org.uk/professionals/hormones

'Bio' identical is not available in the UK except at a private clinic in London as it's not a licensed product

. You can get the same products ( other than transdermal progesterone cream) from the NHS but without the saliva tests which are meaningless.

I'm post menopause three years in. I'm 50. I went on HRT for 10 weeks and it didn't help me at all. I stopped.

I manage with diet and lots of fresh air. I still have alcohol but much less than I used to. I don't drink coffee after midday. Night sweats are my biggest issue but manage with a fan and a separate duvet from the husband.

Exercise with the dog has helped me no end. I have lost two stone and feel on top of the world most days. My mood has not been affected too much and for the most part, not having periods has been bliss.

I was offered a bone scan by my GP as I wasn't having HRT. Very pro-active. My bone density is good and no signs of thinning.

Good to find a thread with women and no HRT.

I am 4 years post menopause, and it never occurred to me to visit a doctor! It was at my smear test a few months ago that the nurse recommended I see my doctor to see if HRT was required, and that happened last week. I am 49 (so menopause at 45).

The Drs advice was that had I visited earlier, then I would have (probably) automatically been put on HRT. However, it seems that the main benefit would have been to maintain bone density. Now, 4 years after my last period, it is too late to reverse any deterioration (which tends to happen at the actual point of menopause).

I have no history of osteoporosis in the family, and I have no other high risks factors (smoking, over weight, alcohol consumption etc) so the risk would seem to now be minimal.

The key advice for me now was to make sure I get plenty of calcium and also take vitamin D supplements through the winter.

Overall, I had hot flushes for around a year, and still get them occasionally. i have also had moderate (7kg) weight gain, which is harder to shift (or maybe I am just less bothered about shifting it). Other than that, I haven't found it hard at all.

So, yes, I've inadvertently gone through menopause without any HRT, and I think it has been OK.

I had a surgical menopause last year at the age of 51 after a total hysterectomy and ovary removal.

The initial few weeks I had awful night sweats, but these gradually settled, and even went away completely for a few months. They have returned, but aren't unbearable and I will get the odd day of being achey and tired, but on the whole I feel great, and far better than when I had my ovaries.

I was given hrt, but it has sat in the drawer and never been used, I hate having to take anything and medicalising things, so I'm happy as I am for the time being. I've also lost weight as I've watched my diet and feel better in myself. Long may it continue!

HRT saved my sanity. I genuinely don't think I would be here without it. I am bipolar. Had a hysterectomy and nose dived into menopause and my moods went haywire. Not helped by insomnia and sweats

There are no medals to be won from avoiding HRT. It is hugely important for some women but not all.

From my own experience and from others, it returns a quality of life that menopause steals.

the Drs advice was that had I visited earlier, then I would have (probably) automatically been put on HRT. However, it seems that the main benefit would have been to maintain bone density. Now, 4 years after my last period, it is too late to reverse any deterioration (which tends to happen at the actual point of menopause).

This is nonsense. Sorry.

HRT is the recommended treatment by the BMS for women under 60 who have low bone density or osteoporosis, over and above the other options.

You can start HRT up to 10 years post menopause. This is called 'the window of opportunity to reverse any unwanted changes.

Bone density declines fast in the 4-5 years after a final period. But that is NOT to say it cannot be improved! Your dr is clearly not educated on this at all.

If you have not had a bone density scan it might be a very good idea to ask for one as it is for any woman who has reached menopause before the average age o 52.

How would I go about getting a bone density scan, Queen, given my GP said it wasn't necessary? She did discuss it with me but said that I fell outside of the criteria for it (can't remember the actual criteria that she said).

I was reassured by my GP, and I honestly don't have any (many) side effects of the menopause, I actually am happy that it has happened. I feel healthy and fit. Would I be seeing any issues right now if my bone density was too low? I don't want to stay in blissful ignorance if I am actually storing up issues for the future. What would be a good online resource for me to do some reading up on it all? Thanks for any info/advice you can give me.

It's good you feel fine, but the point with bone density is that there are no symptoms till you break a bone, maybe in 5 or 10 or15 years time.

Your Gp was negligent tbh not to offer you HRT or a bone scan. Having your last period at 45 puts you 7 years premature to average meno so that means you have already gone 7 years with low / no oestrogen.

I don't understand her 'not necessary' comment. Does she have X ray vision to see your bone density

You could try insisting and telling her that you had an early menopause (friend of mine was told she had an early menopause at 47!) so a DEXA scan is advisable.

You could pay for one yourself- some private hospitals offer them but may need a letter from your GP.

If she does neither then you could ask for a referral to a gynae for a 2nd opinion.

This is the recent issue of a magazine Menopause Matters- see pages 10-13 on osteoporosis. The dr who comments says that the FRAX tool which is sometimes uses to assess risk is not that good. (I agree- I was diagnosed with advanced osteopenia at 48 and the FRAX tool would show me as having no risk. Go figure.)

You need to take action because treatment is not that successful the more severe the bone loss is and the meds for it are not that great.

menopausematters.co.uk/issue53/mobile/index.html#p=9

My mum didn't use HRT and I'm hoping that I will get through it without HRT as well! I'm making concerted efforts with my diet and exercise -I've always exercised daily but now doing a much more structured programme focusing on weight lifting more than cardio. Am also being way more careful with my diet and have cut down hugely on sugar and processed foods.

My symptoms so far are brain fog and exhaustion with the occasional (mild) hot flush. Did have several night sweats (full on dripping needing to change pj's and bed clothes in the middle of the night ones) a couple of years ago which prompted my diet and exercise overhaul. I had a coil fitted last year so not sure if the much lighter and more regular periods are a result of that or peri-menopause!

I take a multi-vitamin designed for women along with a zinc tablet daily .

I'm 49 so fingers crossed it will be relatively smooth sailing

I'm really really not being confrontational here but I don't genuinely get comments like this.

All the medics who are HRT experts agree that for most women the benefits of HRT outweigh risks and that it's actually good for women, but there seems to be this myth still around it that HRT is bad!

To me, it's a bit like saying I have terrible migraine but I am going to struggle on using diet and exercise, not take anything to help...

At this year's British Menopause Conference , one dr who spoke is quoted as saying 'The unfounded myths around HRT... are what is called a Zombie idea' something that should have died long ago (but keeps coming back...)

This is in this month's Menopause Matters magazine on page 31.

www.menopausematters.co.uk/issue53/mobile/index.html#p=31

I'm 57. Last period was two years ago. What a relief! I had endometriosis and never experienced pain-free, light, regular periods except when I was on the pill. The last few years before they stopped I had no predictability at all and a few incidents of flooding. Delighted to see the back of all that.

I wouldn't say I've experienced any brain fog or mood problems. I've been having hot flushes for at least four years. I barely notice them now. My mum tells me she still gets them (in her 80s). If I had a high profile, demanding job and/or if I wore a lot of make up/high fashion clothes I expect I would find them harder going, but as it is I just dress in layers so I can easily strip off a bit when I need to. They don't last long, a minute or two at most. Sleep not much affected.

On the whole, I feel great - better by far than I did ten years ago. Plenty of energy, no significant aches and pains, enjoying life.

I decided not to take HRT because I have several close relatives who have had breast cancer so I'm concerned that I am also higher risk. I am taking regular exercise, eat a good diet (albeit too much of it) and I've never smoked. I like a glass of wine or a G&T now and then. As my risk of breast cancer is increased by being a bit overweight and drinking a little alcohol, I have no desire whatsoever to increase it even more by taking HRT.

8 agree completely Queenofthenight. I think this generation should embrace something that can alleviate a part of women's health tja5 has previously caused misery. We have this opportunity to enhance our quality of life and reduce the impact on our bodies.
But it's like anything else, there will always be those who sniff at interventions because their symptoms are not that disruptive.
Menopause is a nightmare for some women so don't discount the immense good it can bring for others.

Hi @Queenofthenights,

I don't think you're bring confrnotational, I also don't feel that HRT is bad for me. I didn't enjoy the feelings I exoerienced. My GP was very clientled and the DEXA scab was ordered. HRT for me is a choice-based framework and while I know women it has worked for, I know women like myself that are happier going without.