FINALLY got estriol cream for my sore bits - but really apprehensive about using it!

[EllenRipley]

So was here a while ago asking about estriol cream for my temperamental urethra - finally got it today from a nice GP.

I've seen a urologist who said I had urinary retention probably because my urethra was a bit "old & scarred" (I'm 47 😳) and am having to wait ages for the pre-cystoscopy scans. I'm being driven nuts by urethral pain and uti symptoms (no infection). Finally decided stuff it, I'm not waiting for a camera up my bladder to confirm what I already know. All my problems have arisen since my periods started going haywire (e.g none for five months til January, then three cycles during which bladder problems flared again, now period has disappeared again).

Everything I've experienced & researched and been told on here (Thankyou @pollyperky) suggests it's down to low estrogen and estriol is a relatively easy fix. But now I'm crapping myself!

What if I have bad side effects? (Always reacted badly to hormonal contraception)
What if it makes things worse?
Since I don't have full on vaginal atrophy/dryness should I ignore dosage instructions and just dab some on the sore bits? At my last gynae exam I was told my ladybits looked "estrogenised" so I don't want to overdo it with a big unnecessary dose.

Aargh. Advice/reassurance (again!) appreciated, especially if you've used Ovestin. Thanks x

Sorry to take so long to reply. I don't use it now unless I have a bad patch, but I no longer breastfeed (which was contributing hormonally to the issue) and am not menopausal so my symptoms are better than they were.

Thanks @123bananas

Bumping this for some further input if possible!

I did my 2 week 'loading' dose - the last four or five days of that I had some light bleeding with full on cramps that felt like a period. Bleeding seems to have slowed but I feel really sore and crampy and today I'm really woozy and lightheaded. Whole body feels like I'm about to have a massive period! 😩

I have to get some more cream to continue with the twice weekly but I don't know if this constitutes a 'bad reaction'. Should I have continued with loading dose for another week, or stop completely? Is this some kind of reaction to it withdrawal from it? My bladder problems definitely improved.

Aargh etcetc... TIA X

Peri is so unpredictable. It is all trial and error. I have not worked out what is best with the bleeding. At first, I blamed the vagifem for the increase in periods I had but I expect it was my body trying (and failing) to find a new normal after coming off the pill.

Now I am on full hrt, so I have a predictable bleed, so I make sure I use plenty of vagifem before the bleed, use multigyn actigel with the tampons, and use more vagifem as soon as the bleeding subsides. You can probably slap a bit of cream on the outside and around the urethra - I tried using vagifem high up with tampons, but it comes out stuck on the top of it I have been using Vagifem for a while, and with the full hrt on top of it, I can tolerate a few days without it. Still get sore sometimes though.

If I get a sensitive bladder problem, I drink plenty water and go to the loo a lot for a day and that seems to help.

Thanks @Melamin , it's trial and error alright! It sounds like the combo is working for you, which gives me hope! Is Vagifem different to Ovestin? I read somewhere that if you're using these estrogen creams for bladder stuff that you should put it just inside the vagina, on the anterior 'wall' that lies next to the urethra, rather than higher up, as this is where it's needed.
I'm so annoyed at my body, my urethra was feeling so much better! It's sore again. I even managed some coffee but it might've been too soon. Bleeding has stopped but the cramps remain, they don't feel like period pain anymore but they're quite intense. I don't think I'm being paranoid, the cream has definitely activated something but I'm going to persevere with the twice weekly maintenance dose for a while to see if it settles and I've been dabbing it on my bits like u suggested. Not convinced a return visit to doc to discuss would be useful.
I do wonder how my body would react to full on HRT if this is what happens with a tiny bit of estrogen, jeezo! I'm working in the premise that I must've been completely oestrogen deprived from the outset.
Anyway. Thanks again for your advice & your experience. Xx

Hi been reading your post and I’m having same issues wondered if you felt that the Ovestin worked for you?

@Amber112 yes it definitely helped with bladder/urethra probs! I also had a procedure done on my urethra ('dilation') which I think has made a difference.
My periods have returned with a vengeance so I haven't been using it as much (tho have been assured that's got nothing to do with the cream, though obvs my estrogen has kicked in again).

Are you having bladder probs?

thanks for getting back so quickly! Have been having urethra soreness/aching sensation similar to cystitis but no infection present. Have been on antibiotics and tried Vagifem for 5 days, aching went away to be replaced by burning so doctor advised to stop. Though I would try the 1% Ovestin on the outside today but no improvement yet? How often did you use it before you felt some relief? I’m in peri so definitely caused by lack of oestrogen!

Oh god it's horrid, isn't it? But unfortunately seems pretty common  sounds like you maybe had reaction to vagifem - too strong or other ingredients irritating? Plus antiBs can irritate things. Before I started the cream I also worked from the premise that a) there was def inflammation and b) though no infection showed up, you can still get 'biofilm' infections that sit in the bladder wall and don't always get picked up, so I did a bit of research and took some supplements to clear that. It did seem to help the bladder but the urethra pain persisted.
I was hesitant and started slowly but was advised (on here) to do the full loading dose for two weeks, which you need to do to replenish the estrogen in the tissues. So I did that and it really made a difference, and continued with the maintenance dose. As I mentioned, that's currently a bit sporadic since my periods have decided to return (and they're long!) so I'm assuming that means my peri estrogen flux is on the up at the moment and I'm unsure whether to use it while I'm actually bleeding. I started using it again last night so we'll see. I actually ended up doing the loading dose twice because after the first time I took a break post- the urethra procedure (was hoping that would sort it). But I got sore again so GP advised that I start it again and for a good few months I didn't have any probs.
Top tip: I read a something by a meno doc advising to apply the cream lower in the vagina, on the wall that's adjacent to your urethra, rather than inserting it high into your vagina. It's def worth applying some to the outside, esp round your urethral opening but it does need internal application.
Downside: it seems to give me thrush which I intermittently treat with some multigyn actigel or bioactiv pessary things, both available online or at pharmacies.
I've had a fibroid for years that had grown on last month's scan - was convinced it was down to the cream but have been assured by the expert ladies on here that that's not possible given the tiny amount of estrogen in the cream!

Sorry that was really long! I'd just go for it - full loading dose, then maintenance and give it time to work. I think it's normal to expect a bit of irritation to begin with, even some cramping or slight bleeding. Let me know how you get on! X

Thanks for your helpful reply I’m still suffering and my dr is on hol until Monday not that any of them understand what it feels like, very uncomfortable like you need to pee constantly. I’ve used Vagifem last 2 nights but no relief yet will keep trying it’s a horrible situation to be in and you feel helpless😳 really hoping it eases over next few days. Hope things are better for you I also had fibroid few years back which caused horrendous bleeding but got that problem sorted thankfully. Appreciate your help will keep you posted x

Forgot to ask how long will it take to work? So good to chat with someone who knows what I’m talking about 😄

Aw Amber, I really feel for you, I felt ill with it all. I would say there was noticeable relief after the two week vaginal loading dose. Have you been checked for thrush too? That can cause stinging and you can have a 'silent thrush' that doesn't cause usual symptoms. Also, when u finally get to see your doc it might be worth asking for a urology referral (assuming they've not sent u down that route already). I had a stricture (which consultant said was to do with 'my age' ie peri) which was causing urinary retention and irritation/pain.
See if your pharmacy has any multi-gyn actigel, I used to slap that on (stings at first) but it provided some relief. I also stopped using soap etc on my lady bits and got a natural ph neutral fanny cleaner! X

Also! Herbs like marshmallow, corn silk and slippery elm helped me when it was at its worst.

When I go back next week I will ask for urology referral can’t continue with this long term. Don’t think it’s thrush related as I’ve also suffered with that for many years but thankfully when hit peri it vanished 😄 only to be replaced with something far worse! I will continue with the VF to see if it improves thanks again for suggestions

Well at least there are some positives to peri!
Good luck with doc. Hopefully they'll support a switch to Ovestin but def worth getting your waterworks checked too. It didn't solve my problems but it def helped. If there's no problem then even more reason to give the estriol a go! X

I will keep you posted ! Hope all ok with you x

Ellen please feel free to pm me if you like 😄

Hello, I was prescribed ovestin and i cant remember whether my doctor told me to put it on the outside too. I have clitoral pain. But this Is The first time ive seen anyone mention using it on The outside, is this common?

Hi, yes I think it is quite common to put some on the outside (vulva) area too, don't worry! Just dab or rub a wee bit on. I hope it helps your sore bits!

Hi I’m 20 years old and I’ve been given ovestin cream to treat my uti symptoms (really painful) before I was given this cream I became really itchy down below (thrush like symptoms) so I took the oral thrush tablet it’s been 3 days since I took it and I’m still a little itchy😢 do any of you know if I can use the Overton cream to soothe the itch? Sorry about the details but it’s driving me insane! Oh and also can you use the Overton cream vaginally while on your period? Thankyou:)

Hi I am new to this and a lot older than you ladies I am sure but hopefully I can learn from someone. I may be able to offer advice too. I am 60 started menopause at 40 and my periods stopped at 50. I have never wanted to take HRT and thought I would get through menopause unscathed but unfortunately my body said no. I noticed I was very dry and a bit itchy too doc gave me a moisture cream and it helped and I stopped after a while. Then about 2 years ago I noticed that my actual vagina felt like it was closing. I haven't had sex in a good few years due to hubby having a few issues. I went to doc and she said yes it was closing but if I need a pap smear we will deal with then. I was nervous about what they would need to do to open my up so just left it at that. Then about 2 months ago all of a sudden I noticed I couldn't pass urine as I should. I was trickling out. Another doc saw me and was shocked she said I had a opening the size of a pin head to pass my urine through and that I would need surgery. It turned out that I was taken in for emergency op as I got to a point where I has pain in kidney and could hardly get anything out. So they didnt know what to expect , whether it was sealed deep inside or just the outside skin. Thank God it was just outside skin to the cut it open, no stitches just to heal on it's own. I am sharing this because it was due to having no oestrogen at all. I was so dry that the skin just sealed itself closed and because not sexually active nothing was keeping it open . So ladies dont hesitate to use the oestrogen creams . It is worth it trust me. I wish I had been given it right in the beginning so now my question to you all is please have you had any side effects . I feel a little itchy and have a bit of see through discharge. Should I expect this ? I am using Vagifem vaginal tablets and the Ovestin cream. I also just dont feel well. My cut is not healing well so going back to doc for that but just wanted to ask you ladies . Sorry such long post

I feel a little itchy and have a bit of see through discharge. Should I expect this ? I am using Vagifem vaginal tablets and the Ovestin cream.

It's normal to experience some kind of mild irritation because the tissues are changing.

Discharge is GOOD! Normal, healthy vaginas are moist and have discharge.

This shouldn't make you feel unwell. Practically nothing is absorbed systemically.

You might also want to think about using full HRT at some point as the local creams might not be enough. Was this suggested at all?
Some women need both.

You need to keep using both products and possibly more than twice week after the first 2 weeks. There is currently a medical debate going on about this because lots of women do not find 2 x a week enough- some are using it every other day, or daily , for longer.

Thank you so much for your input. Really appreciate it.