Insomnia - help, anyone???

[BCBG]

I can't sleep!!!! I am perimenopausal, last proper period in Feb, have had hot flushes up to 15 a day and bad night sweats since then. But now I just wake up and can't sleep for two or three hours at a stretch; my brain is racing away as soon as my eyes open and I can't sleep. Is this another menopause symptom? I have always been a solid eight hours a night woman before, although a light sleeper if someone needs me. I am SO tired i could cry - could really use some help....

Oh dear - never forget that sleep deprivation is a form of torture, so cut yourself some slack if you're feeling stressed.

Do you sleep alone/ reading. or listening to a radio with a human voice can help.

I loved the Coolsleepwear range when I was suffering from night sweats.

Do you have to get up and go to work next day, or have you flexibility to nap during the day?

I can nap sometimes, but Im scared it will make the nighttime insomnia worse

I have found that not taking a nap doesn't make a difference to sleeping at night. I usually try to lie and relax, if i wake up at night. Sometimes I take an herbal supplement or Boots Sleepease.

I gave in at this point and spoke to my GP, HRT really helped - although do understand if you choose not to. It took about a month to work and I began to sleep again.

BCBG - no need to suffer. Go to the doc and get some HRT asap and you will feel much better as patchworkchick discovered - as long as there is no medical reason why you can't take it. It is not giving in. Women going through menopause become oestrogen deficient - it may be natural - but so is diabetes and thyroid disease, following the same argument. Just need to find the right type. I couldn;t cope with nights without sleep and I had exactly the same prior to HRT.

I can 2nd the above post. Sleeplessness was THE reason I asked for HRT. My dr agreed that with the really healthy lifestyle I had there was nothing more I could do and not worth faffing about with supplements etc which may not ( according to all research) actually work.

My mum has had terrible sleep problems now for decades and hot flushes into her 80s- she's too old now for HRT and sadly her GP refused it to her in her 60s- but I hate to see her suffer and would advise anyone who cannot sleep to try HRT and NOT sleeping pills etc- your body is oestrogen deficient.

A couple of years ago my GP prescribed me HRT - the sort you stop to have a mini-bleed - because she said I was perimenopausal. In fact I was just tired, and had skipped a period for the first time...it has taken four years of regular periods getting lighter before now, where everything has just stopped like a switch flick and the flushes have begun with a vengeance. Anyway, I took the tblets for four weeks and felt wonderful, and then felt increasingly ill until at eight weeks in I felt suicidal, actually had those thoughts, even though I have never ever had those thoughts in my life. GP took me straight off the HRT and I recovered quickly. She said that the fact that the contraceptive pill made me feel like permanent PMT was why I reacted. I am worried about oestrogen toxicity and about feeling that ill again on HRT

sorry, that post doesn't make sense .... I took the tablets in 2009 for 8 weeks, then have had normal cycle up until Feb this year when it all kicked off.

Im watching with interest, I have exactly the same problem as you OP and am over 2 years into menopause. I cant take HRT.

I dread my nighttime wakening, I try relaxation techniques but my mind just wont stop racing, and like you Im often awake for three hours.

Occasionally I take a sleeping tablet, but I prefer to avoid that as much as possible.

BCBG - sounds worrying - but what kind of HRT did you use? Sometimes it is the usually synthetic progesterone which causes these symtpoms - not the oestrogen which is usually the one needed to feel good.

Oestrogen toxicity - very unlikely, although if you were taking premarin/prempak or any of the equine oestrogen preparations - these contain a mix of oestrogens which are different from ours and can make some women feel awful. Our own oestrogen achieves very high levels in the body at ovulation so unlikely that any preparation would give you too much.

There are lots of different types and surely there would be one to suit you. The bio-identical type ie containing estradiol and progesterone are the least likely to cause problems. Even if you are highly progesterone intolerant - which you may be - then there are ways to minimise intake of this under specialist help. Much better to use HRT than sleeping pills! Have you had pregnancies and if so how did you feel during these when progesterone levels are very high?

The contraceptive pill contains synthetic progesterone so is no indication of how you feel on bio-identical preparation ( available on NHS).

That's very interesting- I can't recall the name, just that it was meant to be taken for three weeks at a time with a week for a bleed. What actually happened was that I never bled, just got terrible pms which worsened by the day. During ally pregnancies I was fine, but the pill used to make me bloat up rapidly and have severe pms like symptoms so after a few variants they stopped prescribing it. I was very very fertile, not sure if that is relevant or not.

Also, could the reason I felt so ill be because at the time I didn't actually need HRT?

not menopausal but have suffered from insomnia - I have been recommended (and found it works) audio books. No matter how good the book I fall asleep after a few sentences! Bliss.

BCBG

It sounds as if you are having side effects from the progestins, not the oestrogen. There are loads of different types of HRT and TBH pills are not the best way to take it- they have more side effects due to poor absorption so you have to take a bigger dose than you would with patches or gels.

Many GPs dish out pills but specialists tend to recommend other types of HRT- bioidentical oestrogen for a start, in a patch or a gel.

The recommendation is that you try a type for 3 months. Many women find that using a bioidentical oestrogen (available on the NHS as a prescription item) and a separate bioidentical progesterone - Utrogestan- is a good combination.

Don't give up- go and see your dr again.

due to other heath issue I can not take the usual HRT and my GP sent me to a special menopause clinic in a local hospital. So if one type does not work as to be referred to a menopause clinic local to you, all is not lost.

patchwork- all GPs have the ability to prescribe every sort of HRT.
Can you say what you mean by the 'usual HRT' and what you have been given now?

There are lots of options apart from pills, so I assume your GP wasn't clued up enough which is why you were sent to a meno clinic?
Unfortunately this is all too common- meno information must be a tiny part of GP training- so either find a clued up GP or do as you did and find a clinic.

The hrt pill made me very ill, dizzy, vomiting and headaches. I moved on to patches and have fine with them. It's better for some people if the estrogen doesn't have to go through the liver.

hi Bella65. When I went to my GP she was very reluctant to prescribe- I have had major heart surgery with on ongoing medication. GP told me that HRT tablets metabolised in the liver and could increase blood pressure. This aparently is not a problem normally, but because of my surgery not advised. The menopause clinic was brilliant and prescribed Oestrogel and Utrogestan 100mg.

Patchwork- it's just sad- if that is the right word- that your GP wasn't clued up enough to offer you Oestrogel and Utrogestan from the start, isn't it? It's not rocket science and even I ( as a well read non medical person!) know that transdermal is safe (est) for anyone with heart problems etc. I was prescribed gel straight away by my gynae as it's pretty common knowledge now that pills have the most side effects and many drs prefer to give HRT through other routes.

Yep sad as it took so long to sort out.

BCBG I think the HRT you could have been prescribed would have been something like Cyclo-progynova - it doesn't seem to be widely used now from my experience on forums - this is the only one with a tablet free week. Therefore not only could you get side effects from the progestogen (in that case one called Norgestrel), you would experience classic pmt symptoms from progesterone withdrawal and oestrogen withdrawal during the pill free week. It was 11 days oestrogen only, 10 days oestrogen and prog, then the week with nothing.

Once you get well into peri-menopause then you need oestrogen all the time, which is why most HRT preparations now provide this.

I doubt the fact that you felt so ill meant you didn't need oestrogen. The fact that you didn't bleed indicates that oestrogen levels were low - since the HRT contained sufficient progesterone to stimulate a bleed after the end of the course of tabs.

Don't be afraid to try again with bio-identical as I suggested earlier in the thread and transdermal oestrogen as Miss Bopeep said above.

GP ignorance is now making me more and more angry on behalf of all women out there who are suffering needlessly from menopausal symptoms when a little knowledge would go a long way.