Get up and go has got up and gone.....

[Fedupnagging]

Am mid 40's and have been perimenopausal since about 40 - penny only dropped 12 months ago though.

Have been through various stages inclu no periods for months at a time and lots of flushes, to, at the moment, short light periods, usually 2 weeks late, no hot flushes but very hot all the time.

Despite sleeping ok at the moment, I am tired all the time and don't have very much energy. Have also just come to the end of 10 days of headaches. I believe this is all hormone related - GP did various tests about 10 months ago so no thyroid problems etc.

I exercise regularly and eat fairly healthily and am taking multi vitamins and evening primrose.

Just realised how long this post is - sorry! I just wonder if anyone else is like this and what you do to boost your energy levels?

But thanks anyway for the link, which goes into a satisfying amount of detail

I agree with Ameliagray there is a huge amount of information available on the menopause and at all sorts of level of detail - depending on what you want. Menopause Matters website is far from superficial and from there you can go straight to more scientific or in depth information if you want it. Now GPs knowledge - that's another issue and that is where unfortunately there is room for improvement as women aren't always getting the right help and advice they need.

Of course there is nothing to replace talking to other women going through the same process but the information helps us understand what we are going through - even though we all experience it differently.

Nick Panay (the author of the article) is also Chairman of the British Menopause Society ( for health professionals) and practises on the NHS as well as privately. By all accounts he is excellent (as a gynae).

Well, there certainly is a large quantity of information (on the internet at least) but as a lay person I'm not always sure which sites to trust.

I note that the "hormone deficient post menopause state" is permanent but am reassured to hear from talking to friends that not all the symptoms experienced during perimenopause continue forever.

TheFarSide

I'm a lay person too- but I use my research powers- for want of a better word- to find out who is an expert and whose advice to trust. You can do the same.

The founder of Menopause Matters is Dr Heather Currie- she is an expert.

The paper I linked to is written by a highly respected gynae.

There are books written by gynaes.

I don't really see why you say that you don't know who to trust.

The discussion in this thread was not an "irrelevant argument" ( if you think that then you have missed the point.)

It was a serious discussion about whether women live longer post-meno than 200 years back and if they should therefore take HRT now.

If you have read ANYTHING on the meno- including that paper I linked to, then you will see that the acute symptoms of peri do go- thugh some women still have hot flushes into their 70s and 0s ( my gynae agrees with this) and evev if these go, the more serious conditions such as osteoporosis and heart disease are the ones we need to be thinking about.

Not to mention vaginal atrophy and bladder problems - although these can partly be treated by topical oestrogens, such as Vagifem and Orthogynest.

The Farside - I do agree there is a lot of rubbish on the internet - some of which is pseudo-science or designed to blind the unsuspecting lay person into thinking it is all valid.

The safest thing is to avoid many of the American sites - which are often cranky - and come out with unsubstantiated theories and invented illnesses such as "adrenal fatigue" - and are usually trying to sell you stuff because of there antiquated and unfair health system over there.

If you are looking for scientific info then try Google Scholar although you will get striaght into the nitty gritty of the scientific papers.

As Ameilagray said - go for the respected gynaes and organisations:

Menopause Matters - Dr Heather Currie - lots of links on their site here:
www.menopausematters.co.uk/links.php

Prof Studd - www.studd.co.uk/index.php

Nick Panay already mentioned - British Menopause Society

International Menopause Society
www.imsociety.org/index.php

The North American Menopause Society - a good American site - has published some interesting info
www.menopause.org/

Hope this helps!

Thanks Bellaciao for providing some helpful links. I agree with you about the American sites.

I have done a bit of looking around amelia and yes it's possible to find information but I wish it were more easily accessible. It's not as if menopause is an obscure disease, in which case I would expect to have to spend some time on research.

Sometimes it's more helpful to share experiences with others going through the same. I don't automatically assume that gynaecologists are experts, and I wouldn't know which of them are "highly respected" (as opposed to simply "respected" or even "not respected"?).

The spirit of this thread was the OP wondering if anyone else has the same symptoms and how they cope. I didn't come on here to argue the toss about availability of information and I reserve the right to moan about my symptoms and talk about my personal experiences, preferably without any further patronising comments.

Far what constitutes patronising in your opinion?

Neither I nor Bellaciao as far as I can tell have done that. I took issue with your "deleted" phrase "irrelevant argument" , because it wasn't at all irrelevant to the thread and the discusison.

We have- if I dare speak for her- have given you links to experts who can provide the help you seemed to be saying you could not find, or decide if this info was trustworthy.

"Highly respected" to me, means experts in their field who are acknowledged by their peers- other consultants- to be an authority on certain subjects.

They have often done a lot of research, and are more up-to-date with developments than other people in a smiliar profession.

If you feel this thread has developed in a way that you don't find helpful any more, then the solution is to start your own thread and ask for support there. But many discussions on forums digress from the original post and that's par for the course.

It's a shame that you are so touchy about this because a lot of people lurk without posting and one person's "patronising" is another's source of information. People will be scared to post if things evolve into an argument- and that was never my inention anyway- it was simply to disagree a little with what you said. That's what happens on forums :)

OK amelia I am sure you didn't intend to be patronising.

One issue is that so-called highly respected experts sometimes take different views (eg on the benefits or otherwise of HRT) so for a layperson it can be difficult to make a decision about treatment if there is no general consensus. For that reason, I find it helpful to hear directly from friends I trust on their experiences.

They do all have different opinions for sure! It is confusing- yes! But what you will find is that the better specialists will say that! I think all any dr can do is give you the facts as they see them- and this means being up to date, attending conferences, being on committees etc so they discuss topics with their peers, which is sadly not often the case with your "average" GP.

Once you have the facts then you can decide for you what is best and the best drs treat you as an individual- which is what Nick Panay says in that article.

It's fine talking to friends of course, but they aren't much help if they haven't found the answers- and more to the point what works for one person doesn't work for another. It's trial and error.

Yes, ultimately we have to make a decision based on conflicting information from both friends and the medical profession. I agree friends may not have the answers, but nor does the medical profession.

I think I am biased towards trusting women who are actually experiencing (or have experienced) the menopause. I admit I have an irrational distrust of male gynaecologists in general and male menopause experts in particular.

That's a pity :) some of my meno friends have a lovely male gynae, whose specialism is menopause and who is one of the best in their opinion:)

Hi there

Yes there is often conflicting information and of course we are all different ie we will all experience menopause in our own way. Therefore one woman saying - I use progesterone cream (unproven to be effective) and it reduced my hot flushes - doesn't suggest that the next woman does. That is why I base my decisions on HRT use on the science and risk - worked out using large populations and analysed statistically. You can then make an informed choice based on that possible risk.

Somewhere ( maybe on this thread) I did post the link and summary of the latest expert opinion on HRT and the risks - ie the re-analysis of the original WHI study that caused the trouble.

After the information on which to base my decision, I gain support other women to share real life experiences about what it feels like and what has happened to them or ideas about different treatments.

So the two are equally valuable as you say - but if I had to choose one only - I would go for the science - and the reputable experts! I can understand your irrational distrust - why are many of the experts male? But - having read their scientific papers, and talked to women who have been to see them (Studd, Panay etc) they do have my utmost respect. There are women gynaes too eg Dr Annie Evans, (not sure if she publishes) and of course Dr Heather Currie who started menopause matters - who we've talked about before.

I'm just repeating what's been said really but just wanted to come in again on one or two points.

I hope I haven't come over as patronising Farside - certainly not meant to be!

Thanks Bella - your links were very interesting and clearly there are experts out there providing useful information. It's a shame that this kind of scientific research probably doesn't automatically reach many women, either because their GPs are not up-to-date or because it has been misreported in the press.

I'll say the same again- the info is there is you want to find it.

If you want to find an expert, go to various websites, and search- and see which consultants specialise- and instead of buying new shoes spend the money on a private consultation if you are worried or have questions.

Back this up with some in depth research on the web and then make your decisions.

As you say amelia you are repeating yourself.

Not quite.

Nasty comment from you. Why do you feel the need?

I suggested that anyone who wasn't finding support with GP could find another person to help- even if perhaps that meant paying.

Guys, I visited this thread because I too wanted to see whether fellow MNers were experiencing some of the problems I am. I find myself a bit concerned to see it hijacked by an academic discussion, followed by the hijackers bashing the people who would like the thread back please to talk about real issues.
As a suggestion, how about the academic stuff on one thread, the real world stuff on another and put this one to bed?
And please don't flame me for a polite suggestion, really I do not feel up to it today.

Good idea Yddraig.

amelia I came on this thread to offer and receive support concerning my menopause symptoms and now feel ten times worse. Throughout the thread I have felt patronised and upset by many of your comments, the way you have questioned my personal experiences, and your suggestion that I go and start my own thread. In the circumstances, my comment about you repeating yourself was pretty mild.

Hi Yddraigdragon
I am sorry but I didn't intend to hijack the thread but just responded to comments that were made and what I read....
I agree that if a thread starts to go really off topic, ideally another one should be started as it's not fair to the person who started it. Sometimes you can't control these things though and one thing lead to another
And to say I am interested in both!!!
What does "flame me" mean?

TheFarSide I don't want to engage any more with you on this thread but my final comments are that it was your choice to be offended and patronised. I don't think that what I said was either of those, but that's the problem with emailing and forums- people read things sometimes that are not there.

You seem to have over reacted- that's just my opinion- to comments which challenged your views, or pointed you in the direction of information which wasn't what you wanted to read.

We are all entitled to opinions here- I have not made any personal remarks about you, I have made comments relating to the menopause and treatments.

Amelia, do people usually overreact specifically to the things you say? Just wondering...

Bella - flaming is when people jump in and bite when they do not like a post or a poster - an attack response that can be damaging or bullying - or indeed completely overbearing and self righteous.
A flame war is when lots of people do it. Would like to state I found your posts helpful and interesting.

FarSide - shall we make our own cosy corner with a quiet cup of tea and talk lol?
OP - come and join us when you are back.

Yddraig THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

I love you. I feel understood.

I have been pondering starting a new thread and trying to think of some ground rules.

Puts the kettle on and shakes out the welcome mat..