Law conversion degree

[Katherina198819]

I’m 38 years old and hold a BA, Master’s, and PhD in History. As academia has become a shrinking field, I’d like to retrain. I’ve always been interested in law, so I’m considering doing a law conversion degree.

I’m leaning toward the solicitor route, as I know becoming a barrister is extremely competitive and securing pupillage is difficult.

My questions are:

Do I need to secure a job in law before applying for a conversion course?

I’m happy to pay for the degree, but I don’t want to finish and end up with no job opportunities.

I’ve already applied for paralegal and legal secretary roles, but most postings ask for prior experience—which, ironically, no one seems willing to provide.

Has anyone here completed a law conversion degree? What’s the best way to approach it, and how can I realistically get my foot in the door?

Law is not something I just came up with all of a sudden—oh no, “career in academia didn’t work out, so I’ll become a lawyer.” It’s something I’ve always considered. I even applied and got into law school when I was 18. However, I got into the school I wanted for history, so I chose that over law.

When I was choosing my master’s, I seriously considered switching from history to law. The reason I didn’t was the language barrier. I found studying in English to be difficult in the first place, and I chose history because I believed I had enough understanding of it that language wouldn’t be an issue (I was wrong—it was still very challenging).

I’m not in this for money—I understand how little lawyers get paid unless they, for example, work in corporate law. Law has always genuinely interested me.

I qualified 10 years ago in my late 30s having done a law conversion and then the LPC. I found that I didn’t get through the initial sift for most training contracts at larger firms because I didn’t have enough UCAS points and at that stage no human eyes were looking at the application to see the wealth of other experience I could bring. I ended up targeting smaller firms and applied for entry level jobs on reception. I didn’t get those jobs (I was hugely over qualified) but a smaller firm took a chance on me because they took the time to think about what else I could offer. After 6 months they offered me a training contract. So I would say research smaller firms that you feel you could gel with and apply for anything they advertise. Plenty of firms (especially in smaller towns) take on unqualified inexperienced secretarial and admin staff. My firm has done so on a number of occasions, as the right person with the right personality is more important- they can always learn.
High street law - conveyancing and private client in particular- are areas where there is a shortage. But there’s good reason for that and a very high turnover of staff.
Personally, I would not recommend law as a profession. It is not what people expect. The pay in most provincial high street practices is not great. I know countless solicitors who have thrown the towel in because of how they are treated, both by clients and the firms they work for. Expect to have to justify every 6 minutes of your day, constantly thinking about billing and targets - and if you meet your billing target, it will just be increased. I went in with lofty ideas about helping vulnerable people but for 99% of firms it’s all about the money.

I’m not in this for money

So what are you in it for?

I did 4 years of a law conversion GDL and LPC while working. My job for 10 years before I started was directly relevant to the area of law I wanted to go into.

£25k spent and I gave up after 3 years of trying to secure a training contract. I got about 3 interviews from 150applications. Of those I did the LPC with only 5(of about 45) actually became lawyers and of those only 1 is still practicing.

My advice is be very very clear eyed about what you want to qualify into. Ai is really starting to eat at paralegal and junior level work where imo it is doing a good to better job.

Good for people already qualified, very hard for those breaking in. I would be particularly unattracted to corporate or commercial work; the potential to use AI is massive.

That must have been so disappointing. What do you do now?

Another thing I would say is that I personally would never have started out in law with two little ones which you say you have. Law school (you want a decent one, not one that is easy) will be hard work for two years with lots of exams. Once you pass, you are unlikely to get a training contract straight away in Newcastle so will need to try and go down the para legal route and try and impress enough to get offered a training contract. This will mean long hours not 9-5. You will need to be available if needed by a client. If you get a training contract you then have to do various "seats" for two years. I don't know what the requirement is now but in my day you had to do litigation, conveyancing and corporate of some sort (other people may be able to correct me). Litigation will require you to meet deadlines no matter what. The court will not sit at your convenience if your child is sick. To show willing as a trainee (because you want to be taken on once you qualify) you will not be picking your child up from school. Corporate law can require many hours if you are doing a deal. By many hours I mean working over night, occasionally days in a row. You can't say no because the young person next to you will be a better option to the firm to take on.

You'll need to be very careful to chose a type of law where you have flexibility unless you have your partners support with the children. And you need to be up for it.

@DogsandhensWhen I went to law school my kids were 2 and 4 and I was a single parent. I started my TC when they were 4 and 6. First day of my TC was also the younger one’s first day of school. Yes it’s hard work but suggesting a parent of young kids can’t manage that is ridiculous. 15 years on I’ve been a partner for 5 years. As my now-youngest child says: if you try, try, try then you can, can, can.

I’m a litigator btw.

Depends where you work I suppose. And I didn't say you can't do it. Just that you need to chose a flexible option or have support. Which is true.

I'm just trying to point out it's not an easy option with kids. So the OP knows. But good on you for achieving it! I think you sound amazing. I couldn't have done it.

As a lawyer who fantasises about quitting the day job to do a PhD in history, this is a rather disheartening thread!

On a more serious note, I did the conversation course almost 20 years ago (so different qualification route) after a humanities degree. I found securing a legal role extremely difficult for the same reasons you mention and finally got my break with an in-house paralegal role. I have worked in industry ever since.

I would tap up the legal team at your uni for advice as a first port of call. I have found companies and other organisations are often open to employees who are doing legal qualifications gaining experience with them and quite often in-house teams include career changers or non-qualified colleagues who have moved into contract management, etc. Education is a decent source of in-house roles, so don’t necessarily dismiss your current work as irrelevant. At the very least, you can get their advice on the market and make some contacts in the local legal world.

I worked for most of my career until recently at a silver circle firm. Now I work for a smaller firm but am doing more international travel than ever.

I don’t think it’s true, especially these days, to say you need lots of support if you have kids. Coming up as a senior associate years ago in silver circle firm I regularly left work early for school events or whatever. Worked from home with my (male) boss’s blessing (pre Covid) if a kid was sick. No one cared, as long as you got the work done on time. That often required work late at night from home after homework was done and kids asleep, but that could be done even then. Now I have a young child again and do the same (although being more senior now I have more flexibility).

Well I (assume) I qualified well before you so I'm really pleased life with tiny kids as a trainee has improved so much. Sounds so much easier and more pleasant. It's about time these big firms sorted themselves out. There's absolutely no way when I was training that what you describe would ever have happened. I always assumed it never would. Maybe I was just unlucky.

Thank you for this!

Yes, I loved doing my history PhD, and if you want to pursue it just for the sake of it, I’d say go for it. But in my experience, it’s nearly impossible to get a job or a postdoc afterwards unless you’re willing to move outside the UK—and even then, the chances are very low.

Have you thought about teaching law at a university? That’s something you’d be able to do—not only after a PhD but maybe even before (some of them do not list PhD as a requirement). Academia seems to struggle a lot, but one thing I keep noticing is the demand for law lecturers. Maybe not forever, but at least for now.

This was about 10 years ago. Tbh these days trainees are so big on their work life balance, it’s hard to get them to put in an ounce of effort beyond contractual hours so the keen ones really stand out. I sometimes had to leave early but I’d always make sure the work was done later. Most of the young ones in my firm are long gone by 6.30pm and don’t check their phones in the evening.

I’m a solicitor who changed careers into law, but I already had a law degree and relevant experience in the same sector. At that time (16 years ago) the GDL fees were c £12k and the LPC similar. I think SQE is meant to be less expensive (not sure if that is true), but by all accounts is tough to pass.

I don’t think this is a good idea, OP, the legal market is saturated with people trying to find training contracts and unscrupulous providers who will take on as many students as they can with no regard for how many jobs there are.

I had to do the law conversion course as my law degree no longer exempted me from needing to do it,@TheGrimSmile the GDL was primarily subjects I’d studied in the first year of my law degree, but they weren’t studied in anything like the same depth. The GDL is simply one year of a law degree studied in one year, but with less critical thinking about the law (in my experience).

So different from when I was a trainee which was in the last century, so....bit out of date. It just wouldn't have been realistically possible then.

I think anything that helps women get through that glass ceiling that I always assumed was impossible because of simple biology (of a child bearing kind!) is a great thing.

As a graduate you can apply for 2028 training contracts (and vacation schemes). If you manage to secure one then the firm will often pay for your PGDL and your SQE and pay you some maintenance too for both years. There are many firms that like the life experience a career changer can bring. You don't necessarily need law experience.

Another route to consider is a solicitor apprenticeship.

This - I always wanted to be a lawyer, did a law degree then dropped out half way through the LPC (late 90's) when I realised what it would actually entail and it wasn't for me.

If you aren’t doing it for the money, then what is your motivation for changing industry? Do you enjoy your job?