Law conversion degree

[Katherina198819]

I’m 38 years old and hold a BA, Master’s, and PhD in History. As academia has become a shrinking field, I’d like to retrain. I’ve always been interested in law, so I’m considering doing a law conversion degree.

I’m leaning toward the solicitor route, as I know becoming a barrister is extremely competitive and securing pupillage is difficult.

My questions are:

Do I need to secure a job in law before applying for a conversion course?

I’m happy to pay for the degree, but I don’t want to finish and end up with no job opportunities.

I’ve already applied for paralegal and legal secretary roles, but most postings ask for prior experience—which, ironically, no one seems willing to provide.

Has anyone here completed a law conversion degree? What’s the best way to approach it, and how can I realistically get my foot in the door?

Asking people for real-life experience is a part of research.

As I said, my whole life I was surrounded by lawyers and judges, so I believe I have an understanding of what it takes — not first-hand, but I’ve seen plenty.
Also, it might be shocking to you, but there is a lot of fake and confusing information online. I’m not from this country, so I want to hear about experiences in the UK. What’s so strange about that?

I'm not sure knowing lawyers really helps with job applications and you really won't have a great understanding of what it takes. I mean that very kindly. You need to actually work in a law firm doing proper work experience to find out if it interests you and if you would actually be any good. Find out what area you might like to specialise in
Law can be extremely boring and repetitive work, particularly at the start. Law school isn't hugely useful in learning how to practice as a solicitor, in my opinion. And Newcastle, as I said, has a very small legal world.

I’d suggest you talk to the careers service at your old uni- they will be able to give you updated advice. Based on what you’ve said so far, I think you need to find out a lot more about what you’re trying to do and how competitive it is, then focus- for example legal secretarial work is highly skilled but a different set of skills from lawyering. I agree with pp that your PhD may not be viewed as a positive by everyone (I say that as a solicitor with a PhD 😂) Are you interested in becoming a solicitor, a paralegal or a legal secretary? What sort of law? You really need to avoid giving the impression that you’re slumming it because that’s slightly what has come across here. A legal career is as competitive as an academic career, if not more these days.

Another idea to consider might be the civil service. They tend to be more flexible when it comes to transferable skills and some roles will allow you to think about policy and law without being legally qualified.

You appear to have done squat all research before starting this thread op

and as for applying for paralegal and legal secretary roles… do you bother to read the minimum requirements or did you just ignore?

As I said, my whole life I was surrounded by lawyers and judges, so I believe I have an understanding of what it takes

surely they have told you that “connections” mean almost sweet FA these days?

and what do they think about you doing the law conversion course?

OP has said they're abroad, which I think might be the issue here. Enough awareness of the academic side to be interested, nothing about the practicalities of getting into and forging a career in the sector in England.

The career services at my university were the ones who suggested a law conversion — they have plenty of PhDs in the humanities who have successfully gone down the law route.

On the contrary they are very useful, even these days.

Op have you considered a career in the CPS?

Do they offer any kind of mentoring or connections service where you could speak to some of those alumni? That might be useful for you, to connect with people who've been in your position.

Law schools themselves sometimes offer something like this, I do it now and then for my LPC provider, but afaik you normally have to be a student there already.

Some of these comments are very bizarre to me. First, asking people for real-life experience is part of research: I am CONSIDERING going down this route. I don’t see why it’s strange that I want to gather as much information as possible before making a move. I’m not someone who has already done a law conversion degree and is now complaining; that’s exactly what I’m trying to avoid.

Second, I’m well aware of how hard it will be to get a job; just like in most fields these days. I find it strange that people keep saying I don’t know what to expect. I’m already in academia: it’s extremely competitive, you have to go to extreme lengths to secure a job (often moving countries every 2–3 years, which is not possible for me), working long hours with little appreciation, no overtime pay, and often doing the work of three people for a small salary.

I’ve never heard anyone tell an 18-year-old accepted into a law degree: “Take a year off to volunteer because you don’t know what you’re getting into.” I’m not naive — I’ve dedicated my life to one field, and it’s not because I’m not good enough or delusional about job prospects. The problem is that the field has changed so much, even just in the last three years, that I couldn’t have anticipated this situation.

That said, I’ve gained some really good insights here: especially regarding AI and how roles like legal secretary or paralegal may be replaced in the near future. This is the biggest reason I’m reconsidering: I can’t invest time and money into a career that may not exist in five years.

Also, thank you for suggesting alternative routes: I’ll definitely look into them.

A good takeaway should also be to read the job spec and minimum requirements before wasting your time on applying

I did. I think that would be the safest route overall, and it would also open up many other options. However, I’m struggling with the idea of spending a whole year studying HOW to teach. Maybe it sounds arrogant, but after teaching for more than seven years, it feels unnecessary and difficult for me to go back and formally study something I’ve already been doing in practice — even if it’s different in some ways.

Who have you been teaching? University students? Mature students?

I think there are easier ways to get a role that is part time than re qualifying and trying to get one of the rare sought after training positions in law, and then as a PP said, “law” is a broad term: what do you imagine doing in “law”? Conveyancing? Wills, trusts, estates, probate? Commercial? Criminal?

You seem to have decided your destination in very little detail. I get it, it probably feels familiar due to your family background. But it might not be the only choice for you. So you have made a shortcut in deciding what to do and then discovered it probably won’t be that straightforward to get there.

I would start at the beginning and make a list of what you need your employment to have, e.g. part time, local, etc, and then cast your net for potential careers widely. There’s a book called What Colour Is Your Parachute which I would recommend to you.

OP - have you considered the Civil Service? Even if you took an entry level job, youd start on £27k and could apply for higher grade jobs pretty quickly.

University students — specifically undergraduates.

I work in a law firm and our biggest bug bear are people who try to come in on a lower level and then 'oh but what I really want is to be a lawyer'. We've paid recruiters to find you (whether it's for the post room, lower level Assistants), we've needed to fill a specific job and now you want to upgrade yourself and we have to start again. Be honest from the start about what your aim is, don't apply for Legal Secretarial work, they'll eat you alive if your history is acadamia. Paralegal will be the best way to go (being honest that your final aim is a training contract). The SQE has changed things immensely, it's pretty much all about the final exam now which I've heard is not for the faint hearted.

Jumping to conclusions without knowing the full story?

I applied for part-time, minimum-wage secretary roles at law offices: a law background wasn’t even an essential criterion. The focus was on administration, which I have plenty of experience in.

Suggesting that someone could reach the highest degree without knowing how to read says far more about your assumptions than about me.

Teaching undergraduates who have chosen to study and have some interest in the subject is a very different proposition than teaching in a secondary school. And it involves a wider range of responsibilities and factors such as safeguarding children, pastoral care and education, the planning and documentation of everything to explain and justify your teaching and work, so assuming that you can just switch into that from university teaching is not realistic, sorry! As I said before you need to think about what you want rather than focusing on specific jobs, and then you might have a better chance of getting something that you like that suits your needs around family etc and you might enjoy it!

OP, I think you are getting a hard time on here for no reason. Plainly this is part of your research. I also disagree with some of the posts.

Some of my best trainees had history degrees - it’s excellent training for the kind of work I do. BUT - that is because of the type of work I do (human rights), where research skills are very important. I have also found older trainees with previous careers to be particularly good.

As a starting point you need to work out precisely what area/s of law you are interested in - as a PP said, there is a huge difference between say, a legal aid solicitor doing care work vs working in banking law.

Once you have worked out what you are interested in, only then should you be looking into routes in, as they have differing needs. For example, I would never (again) take on as a paralegal someone who doesn’t have a law degree or the conversion course at a minimum. For what I do, the SQE simply doesn’t cut it - they don’t read cases on the course and have no idea how to interpret them! However that is a skill much less relevant to say, a conveyancing solicitor, for which the SQE would be fine.

I do agree with others that you should not be doing any further - expensive - study without much more thought though. I also agree that the legal market in Newcastle is very small though. If you want to stay there, perhaps look at what the firms do, and focus on building towards those areas.

Finally, it’s important to note that law involves long hours and the pay isn’t as good as many think. It’s really, really, low for many areas like crime for example and doesn’t ever get that much better. You need to consider if you can genuinely afford it. There are a handful of people earning huge amounts from the start, but that’s in commercial and corporate law which isn’t for everyone. (Personally I would rather not be a lawyer at all than do that sort of work!)

Best of luck.

I’ve never heard anyone tell an 18-year-old accepted into a law degree: “Take a year off to volunteer because you don’t know what you’re getting into.”

Well, such a person would probably do the volunteering alongside their degree, especially as law departments at universities often have in house projects for this. So there'd be no need for a year out. But do some voluntereering is advice given incredibly often to people doing law degrees. Even if they don't do the uni pro bono stuff, they should do vac schemes or shadowing and those usually don't pay.

And there's a reason why this advice is basically always given. Because volunteering, seeing how the job works, getting client contact is hugely valuable and there's really no substitute for getting a bit of practical experience.

Minimum wage legal secretary requiring no legal experience?

I don’t know much about how people in law volunteer (hence the post) - it’s good to know that this is considered an essential requirement.

I’ve done a lot of volunteering (in 3 different countries) and I’ve never really met young people. But again, it was not in the UK. The only time I met younger volunteers was in Australia, where the government provides them with some financial support if they take on volunteer work while looking for paid jobs; as it should be, rather than exploiting free labor. But that’s another topic.

If volunteering is such an essential criteria, this route is definitely not for me: not because I’m lazy or ignorant, but because I’m not young. I have huge responsibilities and need to be realistic about what I can do. There will be other paths for me that won’t require working for free.

Asking for real life experience is fine, up to a point, but of course equally you have no way of verifying any of us have the experience we claim. But posting on Mumsnet is not a substitute for starting by looking at the basics via at official and reliable sources, such as the Solicitors Regulatory Authority and the Law Society on how you get qualified as a solicitor. That should be your starting point and that would have told you the law conversion course is basically out for new starters with SQE in. Look at the law firms websites of the country's biggest law firms (eg Clifford Chance) and also Newcastle firms to see how they describe their graduate intake expectations and training expectations. In the same way if you wanted to look at corporate governance you should look at the Chartered Governance Institute to understand the work and qualification route to being Chartered.

I think you need to take a big step back here, work out what the key aims you have for the rest of your career and what your non-negotiables are. Are you looking to make good money to provide for your family (sounds like not necessary), to get status, intellectual stimulation in a job, or is some of this to subconsciously please your family/retain their respect? If you are committed long term in Newcastle that is perfectly legitimate but it constrains the professional options to you - you may well make as much if not more than many solicitors in Newcastle as a teacher. Part time being vital limits the options further.

Also, don't make the mistake of viewing The Law as an amorphous blob, it simply isn't. Someone on your local high street doing wills and probate and an inhouse lawyer at an investment bank doing leverage finance may both be solicitors but they are wildly different jobs so you'd need to understand what types of legal activity even take place near you.