Clinical Psychology Doctorate at 37

[PerkyGreenCat]

I work as a band 6 NHS mental health professional. I also have a masters in counselling and have a small private practice in addition to my full time job.

I want to increase my earnings in the long term and I know I could move up the NHS pay scale and also earn more in private practice (and do court work, etc) as a psychologist.

I've thought about the NHS High Intensity Therapy trainee posts but there are a lot of cuts to services at the moment and those roles are 12 month fixed term contracts - once I'd completed the course, there are very few job vacancies.

To apply for the DClinPsy, I'd need to do a psychology conversion course first. The doctorate is really competitive - would I even get a place after forking out 8-10 grand for the conversion course? I've already had a masters loan so I'd have to get a credit card or loan to pay for it.

I guess what I'm asking is: is it worth the slog and the multiple years spent trying to get a place? Being optimistic, I'd be 37 when I first apply.

If I got a place, I'd be paid at the first point of band 6 for 3 years (so my income would initially reduce) and then when I qualified, I'd jump up to band 7.

Any advice?

Honestly, I wouldn’t. If you’re a MH nurse by profession then look at some of the other therapy training routes. What modality do you normally practice? There’s lots of band 7 nurse lead therapy and band 7/8 psychotherapy posts without needing to actually be a psychologist.

Not quite the same pathway but I started the EdPsyD at a similar age and having done the conversion first. I think these courses value a range of experience and are interested in how you apply psychology so sounds like you are well placed to get on.

In services I’ve been in I’ve worked alongside multiple 8a’s who are CBT therapists. In your position I’d go for that. They can charge similar to a psychologist in PP, especially if you do EMDR training

DClinPsy courses are v v competitive to get into. But most of the applicants are straight out of university with no real world experience which is what they need. With several years in mental health done, you should be a good candidate. But you need to get strong grades in the conversion course to show you can cope with the academic side.

I think a psychology conversion is a good course either way. You could do all kinds is psych afterwards.

But if you just want to earn money just seek advice on improving money as a private counsellor and work with good health insurers etc

Thanks for your responses, I'll give it some more thought before taking any drastic steps!

I agree with this. I actually don’t think you’d find it as competitive to get onto the DClin as others because you have so much relevant experience.
It’s paid at the bottom of band 6 for the first two years and then you progress in 3rd year. B7 newly qualified but quickly into B8a via preceptorship roles. You can then work and move around looking for promotion to 8b when you’re ready. You can also charge more in pp as a psychologist than as a counsellor. You’re a Dr and this carries weight.

Age isn’t a problem. You've been given some good alternative options on here so have a good think. If you enjoy person centred or relational styles of therapy I would perhaps not aim for the CBT option suggestion above though as it’s a very different modality.

This was what put me off going for the Clin Psy after my masters, so much hard work, years of expensive training to have to work for low salary, when I did it band 5 and 6 were really low. You already have professional regostration as a MH Nurse and that is an advantage. Think about what areas you love the most to work in, try it out and then see what training is available to top up your existing qualification. There is a lot out there and yoz are in a good position to specialise in pretty much any area that appeals to you. Good luck and enjoy :)

Clinical psychologist here. You don’t say WHY you want to be a psychologist? Counselling and clinical psychology are so different, as are CBT training and clinical psychology. If you just want to stick to therapy work then I don’t think it’s worth the uncertainty and hard work, to be honest. A large focus of clinical psychology is leadership, research, teaching. You need to be really sure what the role looks like in reality before applying.

Lots of misinformation on the thread re applicants. I shortlist applicants for the DClinPsy. People do not apply straight from undergrad, as courses stipulate a minimum number years of experience before applying. It’s also not about how much experience you’ve got in clinical roles, but how you reflect on it and your understanding of contemporary issues in clinical psychology. On average it takes several applications to be successful, and most people aren’t - because there are so many great applications but only a limited number of places.

I think I posted on your other thread, but I would add that in some IAPT services now it's possible to get a job as a psychological therapist after high intensity training, and after training in a further therapy e.g IPT or EMDR. It is often a band 8 position and working alongside psychologists.
Good luck in whatever you decide!

It depends what you want from your actual career. If you want to do more client facing therapeutic work, possibly you'd be better off going down the counselling psychology or CBT high intensity route. But CBT is not always an easy fit if you've been trained in counselling, and burnout is high in IAPT/Talking Therapies. If research, leadership and teaching are more your thing, a DClin is more likely to move you in that direction.

I'm an Ed Psych and also have a diploma in systemic (family) therapy. You would likely be a good candidate for that training and the jobs doing it in the NHS can pay quite well too.

@PerkyGreenCatI was in the exact same dilemma last year!!! B6 MHP with an MA in Psychotherapy. I would need to do a psychology conversion and then apply for Doctorates. I’ve been back and forth torturing myself if I should do it and truthfully, I’m at a point where I’ve decided against it. I sometimes have a wonder and then remember how bloody hard and expensive it would be - not to mention having to do multiple placements in various NHS trusts and then if you get contracted as a Psychologist often they have a contract stating they must do part of their work in certain areas of the trust. For example CAMHS psychs often have to do part of the week in ND if the trust is stretched (which many are)

My plan is to either do CBT or Systemic (hopefully) and EMDR also in time.

Plus there’s a big focus on leadership and you aren’t even guaranteed to be successful in applications for the DClinPsych it could be years!

Yes go for it you are still so young. It's an amazing career with so many possibilities and options.

@BigOldBlobsy yep, even the ed psychs get drafted in! In CAMHS we wear all the hats, sometimes at the same time. I enjoyed ND though. I'm neurodivergent and so are my DC, so I guess there's some affinity there.

(Not in CAMHS any more, and there are good reasons why!)

@CrazyGoatLadyInteresting, I didn’t know EdPsych’s get drafted in too! I know our ClinPsychs are really busy being torn all different ways and being told that they must do certain roles. That’s one of the things that puts me off as I’m not really interested in leadership or the other diagnostic roles they’re brought into. I’m in CAMHS and really enjoying it as I have a wonderful team and boundaried managers (there are negatives too though massive waiting lists for kids as the main one that upsets us all!)

What are the reasons you left CAMHS in general? Sorry to derail OP just interested!

@BigOldBlobsy mainly the waiting lists really as I think everything else stemmed from that. My last role in there was in service management, I managed a team of CYP counsellors. I found that difficult as many of them were burnt out. Parental expectations were often unreasonable too, a lot expected a magic fix without them having to engage, change anything or do anything at home. And many of the families needed much more help than they were getting, of course.

It's better if you have supportive, boundaried management of course. We didn't. They were largely non clinical and didn't understand our concerns, only cared about targets.

Ahh yes I absolutely hear that. Every so often I wonder if a CAMHS AMA thread would get ripped to shreds or whether people would be able to understand that actually there’s a lot more to therapeutic progress than just the therapy! Environment, parental support and disposition being 3 absolutely huge areas that influence the progress a child might make !
Also, parental expectation that therapy can undo a dysfunctional and abusive home life whilst it’s still happening, or that ND young people are going to suddenly behave wildly different and engage with life in an NT way. Or that children can just be given medication on a whim