Doing a PhD as a hobby in my 50s

[stuffystuff]

Just completed my Masters last year. Hard work and frustrating at times but overall enjoyed it. Have been offered a PhD with same department. I don’t need it for a career. Would just be doing it as something to do, a new challenge, keeping my brain busy etc now I’m a divorced 50-something empty nester. The cost is not an issue.

i have looked at the syllabus which would be six years part time, in a subject I do really enjoy and a research project I really am interested in. I like the University and the tutors, but don’t enjoy the mandatory Professional Development stuff, particularly as I won’t be able to say I want to develop this skill or that skill for my future career….its literally being done as something to do.

Has anyone done this for the same reasons? Did you manage to stay motivated and inspired? How tricky did it get? Any tips? Pros and cons?

Damn, wrong board. I’ll ask for it to be moved

Hmm … I don’t know anyone who hasn’t found their PhD an absolute slog. Yes, people love their subject, but I think it would be spectacularly hard to do with no spark of ambition to urge you on.

And of course you can’t do it in isolation. You’d be constantly buffeted, at every conference and meeting, by people with sharp elbows who really, really want to … get on. That could make you feel a bit rubbish if you’re not taking it as seriously as they are. Not to speak of the potential frustration of your supervisors if you don’t appear to be throwing yourself into it wholeheartedly.

Yes! I did mine as I really wanted to research a specific topic with a vague idea that I might like to shift to an academic career. I quite quickly realised I didn't want to stay in academia, but loved doing my research. I was part time and distance and the long middle part was through covid. Of course it was challenging at times, but never as stressful as a proper job, plus was massively satisfying to do.

@Edmontine thank you for this perspective, which has given me some thing to think about

@PolterGooseI would also be part time and distance and feel it would be very satisfying to do. Thank you for sharing your experience

I'm doing a professional doctorate for fun, about to move from completing 4 modules to the thesis stage. I'm retiring in 3 years so the qualification will make no difference to my career. I'm hoping my interest in the topic and enjoyment of research carry me through.

I supervise PhD students and, sorry to say, I feel increasingly skeptical about the prospect of someone doing a self-funded PhD ‘just because’ and/or with no specific career aim attached. I will no longer agree to supervise those students after experiences of them running out of steam/interest/money in the fifth year of a part-time PhD.

I think that kind of PhD used to be more viable 10-20 years ago, when academia was less beset by targets and metrics. Now everything is much more pressured for students and staff. As a staff member, time for supervising PhD students is no longer protected in my workload model - meaning, sadly, I am looking at each PhD student thinking, “What net benefit will I gain from supervising you?” (i.e. co-authored publications).

I really hate that universities have reached such a low ebb that I need to make such calculations. Sorry not to offer a more positive view and of course other academics may feel completely differently.

This is part of what I was thinking.

Might there be any prospect of your doing it full time, @stuffystuff- so you could maintain some momentum and finish before you reach the running out of steam stage?

(On the other hand I do feel it will be a shame if the question of net benefit means that mature PhD candidates are increasingly turned away by potential supervisors. So many people look forward to finally ‘getting there’ after decades of other priorities.)

My colleague suffered a heart attack during his. He was 48. It literally nearly killed him! Hobby…no!

When you say offered do you mean funded?

Would you be working too?

I think I can comment on this as I handed in my prof doc thesis on 31 May. I started with the intention of shifting from public sector to academia, was doing some associate work etc but two promotions in relatively quick succession changed that.

It has been the hardest thing I have ever done. It's hard to explain as it wasn't that it was too hard but it demands long dedicated blocks of time, patience, deep thinking, a real grind of attention to detail. It's nothing like a masters dissertation. I probably made it harder by choosing a very complicated topic and methodology and doing it alongside a very demanding senior job but it's the only thing I have ever done where I really questioned my capacity to complete.

I was a completely horrible person to be around that last month or so too and I know it.

I don't know one person with a doctorate who has said oh yes it was really good fun I'd recommend it. I'd say I'm probably one of the more positive views.

Was it awful? At times and it's not over yet. Would I do it again? Absolutely because I'd always wonder if I could. But mine is also relevant to my day job and has a purpose which pulled me through at times even when I knew it wasn't going to be a big influence on my future career.

I think it's a good idea.

If you have the time and the money to be able to pursue this, why not! I think age and experience brings a clarity that will make it a fair bit easier too.

A PhD is hard for most 'kids' because it's time away from friends, social environments, etc, but also because they haven't really developed that dedication and methodical nature yet.

My friends and I really enjoyed our PhDs, but we'd all agree that the hardest part was the thesis. Everyone always left it to the last minute, papers ended up in huge piles with no real system, and it was a frantic rush to type it. With age, you've developed that work ethic already.

To be honest, it's probably a lot easier these days... "Chat GPT, here's my table of data, interpret it for me". While it might not be 100% reliable, it would give you a backbone to edit yourself.

@thornburythank you for posting. This is how I feel too

@thornburythank you for your perspective. Appreciated. What a shame it’s come to this.

@Edmontinefull time is available but I don’t think I can do it due to the other commitments in my life

@RJnomore1thank you for sharing, the long blocks of time and deep thinking are a concern as is your description. Has definitely given me something to consider

@Init4thecatzthanks for posting. I think studying as a mature student brings benefits and disadvantages

Having done a second degree as a mature (40-something) student with a view to changing career (which I've now done), I wouldn't contemplate doing a PhD with no goal in mind. I've got two friends who did PhDs and they both found them really tough, even though theirs were for career development and have, in both cases, allowed them to forge ahead with their careers. I think it's one thing to study something for your own interest - a lot of people do a degree in mid or later life - and another to put yourself through the rigour of doing a PhD. I'd really struggle with motivation, I think. Because, what's the point?

I’m nearing the end of the first year of a self-funded and full-time PhD, partly hoping to make a contribution to research, but also because of the hobby element. It’s tough - of course it’s tough, being a level 8 qualification and who knows how I’ll feel later on, but I’m generally enjoying it. My motivation regularly dips, but regular breaks and self-care help. One of the grim realities of life is that none of us are guaranteed tomorrow, so I would say go for it. Also, if you didn’t give it a go, do you think you’d always regret it?

@stuffystuff, I’m absolutely not trying to put you off. You should definitely grasp the opportunity to do it as soon as you can.

Just be aware that it probably won’t be the gentle amble you might be anticipating.

@cheezncrackersthank you for posting and giving your perspective

@paranoidnamechangerthis is how I feel about my Masters which I’ve done self funded for the past three years. I’m looking at the PhD as a continuation of this - the last year (dissertation) arguably gives no extra training for my actual occupation (as opposed to the first two years of Diploma) so the last year has been simply “because”.

@Edmontine definitely not expecting a gentle amble. The opposite is anticipated! This is one of the reasons I posted - will I find it too difficult. The masters dissertation has been a full-on slog (more than double the hours per week we were advised before signing up, for everyone, 60-70 hours a week have been put in).

Retired supervisor here. It is a lovely flattering thing to happen, and the team must love your work to offer it, so well done.

But I am going to play devil’s advocate and say that you don’t need the qualification so why give yourself the pressure at this stage of life unless it is a long held ambition.

A part time research role in the department may deliver equal satisfaction and involvement with less stress! Is that a possibility? If you don’t have time pressure or need the money particularly, but want to maintain your involvement, could you ask if a role could be written into a future grant funding bid?

Maintaining momentum on the part time PhD route is challenging. It takes a great deal of self-discipline. You need enough passion for the subject to carry you through when the going gets tough, as it inevitably does. But not so much that it feels like the absolute end of the world when things do not go as you expect. I would advise if you go ahead at all, you do it on a full time basis if you possibly can, and satisfy yourself that your supervisor will genuinely have enough time and care to do their job properly.

Because, what's the point?

Personal development
Making a 'contribution to knowledge'
Leaving something behind when you have gone

It's a long time since I did mine and no doubt things have changed a lot. I was in my thirties, so younger than op, but not fresh out of university. I think the extra life experience does help.

I still have a great sense of achievement and satisfaction when I think about it. I think I would always have regretted it if I hadn't done it.

I was part time, self funded. I took a few months out here and there to get some temp work.

One big advantage that present day researchers have which wasn't available to me is the internet. Accessing articles on jstor rather than having to travel to university libraries. Finding obscure out of print books on archive.org. Being able to access historical records online. So much time and expense saved because there's less need to travel to libraries and record offices, and one isn't limited to their opening hours.

Only you know, op, how the demands of doing a Ph.D. would fit in with your life, but I would say go for it!

@HonoriaBulstrodethank you for taking the time to make these points. I just did a Master’s degree and completely agree that many elements are much easier and less time consuming compared to my undergraduate degree of 30 years ago!

I’m doing a PhD in my 50s and as I’ve not worked, other than in a self employed way, so it doesn't specifically enhance an existing career. In that sense it might be perceived as a hobby PhD, except that it has been a very hard slog. Keeping up with it while juggling family/life commitments (I am going it FT) has been hard and if I hadn’t decided that I love my subject so much, and the related post grad research possibilities, I would probably have given it up if it really were just a hobby.

for me I think there are several things:

1. the object of the PhD is to bring new knowledge or understanding to your field, even if your degree is very structured they will want you to have a research question that is original and which you can prove at application stage will keep you engaged fro the full period (this is why I went FT, I was afraid of getting too jaded over a 5-6 year period). So the thesis needs to not only interest you but will also, ultimately, enrich the field that your peers work in - on that basis no PhD is wasted or without value.
2. along the way I’ve run some undergrad workshops and realised that I love teaching/working with young people, so now plan to teach - either at 16+ or uni level, so it’s opened the door to a new later life career. I may only do it PT, but I will be economically active and contributing to the community until retirement age [and possibly beyond], so for me it’s gained meaning and a value that I didn’t anticipate when starting it.
3. I have two teens heading off to uni this year and next year. I like to think I’ve modelled a passion for learning as well as gained an insight into how unis currently operate which will be useful to them. They’re already talking about which Masters they might do and planning their finances so that they could do a PhD if they want to. If my studying inspires them to contribute to their favourite fields at that level too, that’s a triple bonus in my book.
4. I have made some great friendships and bonded over mutual interests in my subject. Whilst I’m happily married my DH has no interest or understanding of my field at all and pretty much glazes over if I talk for more than 2mins on my subject… it has been great to be able to connect with people who can watch something on the TV and text you with observations that end up in a lengthy to and fro and a long chat over wine in a pub when you next meet up. I’ve missed that as the NCT/Mum network didn’t offer that level of shared nerdiness when I was raising kids. I have started to find my tribe and feel I can look forward to retirement with a body of new, more attuned friendships that I would never have had if I’d become an empty nester and joined the WI.

I am sure there are loads of other positives, but those are the ones that spring to mind right now.

Sorry… that read like a mini thesis… 😳

I agree with a lot of what @CautiousLurker01 says. I’m in my early 60s, just completed a masters and about to begin a part time, funded PhD. Like OP, I was offered the chance to do the PhD. I’ve chosen to go part time because of family and voluntary commitments but I have the flexibility to give it more time if I choose. At this stage it’s obviously not going to contribute much to my career progression but I know that my research is of interest to a lot of people and it has the potential to make a policy difference in future, no matter how small that difference might be. Improving society for future generations is a great incentive.
There’s lots of scope for publications too, with my masters research - so I’m excited to begin. After a life time of leading projects and managing teams it’s wonderful to be able to focus on my own area of interest and to have access to training and support to achieve my objectives.
I’ve also made some great friends and it is wonderful to have the opportunity for ‘shared nerdiness’.

@CautiousLurker01 thanks so much for posting, it’s given me some food for thought.

@alongtimeagoandfaraway what subject will your PhD be in? (It looks like we will both be starting part time PhD at the same time)