PhD, MD, or EdD?

[Howisitonlymonday]

Hoping for advice from people who have made this decision previously...
I'm in my mid-40's, working part-time as a doctor and part-time as a clinical academic in a senior role (which is more management/strategy than research) in a newish medical school.

I have a medical degree, a string of postgraduate clinical qualifications, and a masters in medical education (although that was over 10 years ago now). I would love to do a doctorate in medical education, both because I love it when I get opportunity to use my 'research brain', and because it will increase my credibility in my field, and open the door to further career progression. I can't afford to stop working for 3 years to do a full-time PhD, and would never get back to my current role if I left it, so I'd need to do this part time alongside work.

I work 4 long days per week regularly (usually out of the house from 7.30am to 7pm) and do some sessional out-of-hours clinical work at the weekends (that I could drop), so I'm worried about how much time a part-time doctorate would take out of my family/self-care time.

I have one mid-teen DC at home, which is why I haven't done this sooner, as it feels as though we've only recently reached a point where I have the headspace to consider further study. I did my MMedEd when DC was little and found it very hard to find the time with a pre-school aged child and two jobs, but I did get there in the end! DH is a full-time clinical consultant, and we have ageing parents on both sides who need regular emotional and practical support, but not daily care. I only get 10% of my work-loaded academic time for 'research and scholarship' which amounts to 2.5 hours per week, so the bulk of this would be in my own time. I could definitely cut down on time spent reading the news/mumsnet to give myself time at the weekends.

I've spoken to my old mentor (now long since retired) who said that they wished they had done a doctorate when they had chance, and to my current boss, who is very keen that I do a level 8 qualification, but doesn't have experience of EdD or MD. I would need to go outside of my institution to do this, as only one person at my current Uni has the expertise to supervise the sort of project I would like to do for a PhD, and she is already very busy. My Uni doesn't currently offer any professional doctorates.

What would you do? An EdD looks to be more structured and designed to be doable alongside working life/ potential to do online. MD seems to vary a lot depending on institution. PhD is the most recognised qualification, but requires the longest time and the most self-motivation. All seem to be around £2-3000 per year for part-time, which I could afford to self-fund if I was unsuccessful applying for grants.

I've been going around in circles with this for over a year now, so trying to figure out next steps. Any thoughts or experience welcomed!

My experience of doing a part-time PhD was that it was super flexible and easy to fit around the ebbs and flows of all the other demands of life (and I was fortunate to have a supervisory team who rolled with my ebbs and flows, some are less flexible). With a prof doc you're more restricted during the taught phase, and then have less time for your thesis which, whilst shorter, still has the same intellectual demands as a PhD.

Was about to state this - am doing a PhD myself but attend seminars and trainings along side people doing ProfDoc qualifications and they speak of the limitations created by a set curriculum and core required components - and the dependency on faculty members remaining in post for the duration of their qualification which in the current climate is a real concern. I don’t have any of this.

I was recently able to pause my PhD for 3m after a car accident and then pick up where I left off as it’s a solo/research project (with a creative practice element, so I fully appreciate it would be different for the type of research you are interested in), but for a Prof Doc I’d have had to restart a year later.

With a doctorate you can take it over 5-6 years part time and it really is quite flexible - you have to have an annual review to evidence and discuss progress made in the last 12m, but they do not expect that progress to be linear or ask for evidence that you are doing 15-20 hours a week; they are fine with it being staggered to fit around family and work commitments, to have ebbs and flows so long as the over-all picture is one of steady progress.

Sorry, long answer, but with family and work, I’d be more inclined to look at a PhD? However, I’ve found the faculty members at the local unis have been really open and happy to chat, so I would also reach out and ask to chat through what you want to do and take their advice?

Thank you both, that's very helpful.
Did you do your PhDs at local Universities, or did you go further afield to find supervisors that have the most relevant areas of interest? Were your supervision teams entirely within one Uni, or across institutions?

The person who is the contact for prospective PhD students at my Uni is brand new in post, so hasn't been much help unfortunately. I will need to reach out externally, so next question will be who to contact and where.

I would advise you to find the most relevant supervisor, rather than the one who is most conveniently located.

Best of luck, it sounds like you have a very fulfilling career and this is really exciting addition.

Have you done a scoping search for papers in your area of interest? Any authors who interest you there? If so, look them up on researchgate. They often have contact details there and many will be in academic posts and taking on supervisory duties, or can point you in the direction of someone who may be able to help.

My institution is about 30-40m away, but I largely access resources via online library access, have supervisions via zoom and go up to London (a midway point) to meet for a drink/lunch/face to face several times a year because we get on on a personal level.

It came about accidentally - I was doing a module on my MA course about writing up a thesis proposal. I accessed my now Dir of Studies/primary supervisors research online and was offered the chance to ‘thank’ or contact them before I downloaded their paper. I wrote that I was accessing it because I was researching in the academic area for a PhD and outlined my PhD proposal and how their research fed into it. I didn’t think any more of it as I’ve done this on a few academic research sites and felt it was a ‘courtesy’. By fluke my Prof accessed the repository later that week for another paper they were doing and saw my message. She reached out, we had a glass of wine and an academic chat about her paper/my thesis via zoom (it was the end of lockdown) and she asked me to apply to her uni so that she could supervise me.

So, long story, I’m sorry … I would do some research and start to put together your thesis proposal at least informally (it will change!) and then contact a few of the people whose research strongly impacts your ideas? They don’t need to be local as your registered student status will mean you can access most online library resources free of charge but will also likely be able to physically use the library at the local uni (they have reciprocal access arrangements). People log onto my PG student trainings from all over the world, so I think the requirement to be physically close is no longer a thing - what you need is to find experts in your research area who would be willing to supervise you and select your institution from there? Unlike undergrad degrees whose quality/academic robustness is decided by the awarding university [hence the variability and sometimes justified snobbery], PhDs are externally moderated for quality control and content, so the supervising/awarding institution itself has little-to-no bearing (so a PhD from Oxford is not more valuable that one from Bournemouth for example).

Not sure if that helps at all?!

I did mine at a distance (about 4 hours away), as my initial supervisory team was recommended to me and then I made an informal approach at a participatory research seminar. I had 2 sup's based at my uni and the third was external.

Very strongly agree that supervisors are way more important than institution, and this is reflected throughout all the various PhD groups that abound on social media.

This is all very helpful, thank you!

I definitely need to narrow down my subject area! After almost two decades in medical education, I have lots of ideas of things to look at, but need to find something that I can see myself going deeply into for 5-6 years, that hasn't already had lots of interest. I tend to like messy, intersectional, qualitative subjects with a sociological/ feminist perspective.

I'd been wondering about whether I should take institutional prestige into account, so it helps to learn this is not a thing for PhDs. Most of the people in my sort of role nationally (who have doctorates - not all do) did them in clinical research during their training, before moving into medical education later in their careers, which is a very different trajectory.

I am very fortunate to have the career I do - I clung on by my fingernails for years when DC was small and I also had several older family members who needed extensive support. Also, DH and I both come from what would these days be described as a 'widening participation background', so I sometimes struggle to navigate these situations where it's not as straightforward as just submitting an application, due to a relative lack of social and cultural capital.

"both come from what would these days be described as a 'widening participation background', so I sometimes struggle to navigate these situations where it's not as straightforward as just submitting an application, due to a relative lack of social and cultural capital."

Same for me. There's a wonderful FB group called "PhD Owls - Older, wiser learners", for over 40s pursuing PhDs and beyond, which has been super helpful in understanding it all. I would also highly recommend Tara Brabazon's vlogs on YouTube, she's a bit of a legend and a huge supporter of older PhDers.

Thanks for these - had never heard of them but knowing there’s a FB community out there for us OWLs is fab!!

Oh you're in for a treat then!

Pat Thomson's blog is another great resource.

At our institution an MD has to be clinical in nature which this doesn't sound like it is? I would recommend going for PhD p/t, if you find it too much there's normally exit points so you could get a PG Dip or MPhil

Thank you @PolterGoose for those resources, I'm off to have a look...

@Phunkychicken that's the problem with MD, it means different things in different places. In my previous University, anyone with a medical degree who completed a PhD was awarded an MD. Other places do it as a professional degree more like an EdD or, as you say, only offer it for clinical research projects, and in the USA/Canada it is a primary medical qualification.
I do know of people who have an MD in medical education, so it is a thing, but it doesn't have the same level of national or international recognition/transferability as a PhD.

@BalladOfBarryAndFreda @CautiousLurker01 I love the idea that I can create a proposal that lights me up, and then find a suitable supervisor, rather than needing to fit what I'm doing to what is available locally. If I'm going to be doing this essentially as a hobby for the next 6 years, it needs to be something that's meaningful to me.

This is so very helpful, thank you all, I feel as though I'm further forward in a morning than I have managed to get in months trying to figure this out on my own/ talking to colleagues. 💐