PhD, am I kidding myself?

[PhDornottoPhD]

I would really like to do a PhD but I wanted realistic opinions on if this is likely to be obtainable or not for me?

I have a BA (hons) and a MEd, both of which I studied for part time whilst working and raising two children (one of whom is autistic).

While it is connected to my career, I would purely be doing a PhD for myself as I love studying/research, I am very passionate about my intended area of focus and it's an area with importance to me. I would love to be able to make a contribution to this area especially as it's an area which needs more research. It is also an area which values voices of those whom it focuses on, which I am and have other experience with. I would be taking the self funded route if I do go ahead as I hope it would make me a more attractive candidate.

In terms of workload and motivation, I think I would be ok as I am used to part time study whilst juggling other things. My children are a lot older now and my autistic child doesn't need anywhere near as much support as they did. I would also be doing it full time which means my full focus would be on it. I definitely have the passion for it as the area of focus is from personal experience. However, I am worried I am naive in what the workload will entail. Can anyone tell me how it would compare to a Master's?

In terms of academic ability, this is the area which is holding me back and why I do not think a PhD is obtainable for me. I only have passable grades, there is a reason why (sorry to be vague but quite outing) and I would likely do better in future as things have changed and will continue to change for the better (again sorry it's vague but there are reasons why now and not before). I have a clear plan going forward which I could present on application and can provide examples to demonstrate my true ability. Can anyone advise me on what sort of grades universities will be looking for? Are PhD's only for those with top grades or a certain level? Do they take experience into account? Should I even consider a PhD?

Obviously, you need to be bright to complete a phd but more than anything you need tenacity and commitment. Go for it

I think it sounds like you'd be well able to cope with the demands of a PhD. I guess what it really comes down to is whether you want to create your own project because then it's down to the supervisor you'd want to work with and more of a subjective measurements. If you're applying for a PhD studentship then there will be specific criteria you are supposed to meet but also some of those are more "nice to have" rather than "must have" no matter what their wording is. Personally from personal experience with both I'd said a part-time masters versus a full-time PhD are roughly comparable. If anything the full-time PhD will be easier as you have evenings and weekends to relax on. Absolutely go for it.

Also you don't need to be the smartest of the smartest to do a PhD well. Most of the dropouts are the people who don't know how it feels to struggle and be out the comfort zone academically or otherwise. Your experiences are a benefit to proving sticking power for a PhD.

You don't have to have amazing grades unless you want to get into a top university, and even then, as a mature student, you could squeak in if you make your case exceptionally well.

Lay your groundwork well ahead of time by talking to potential supervisors, going to grad seminars (many are still online - email the departmental admin team and ask about them and google) and getting visible.

Sending in an application "cold" will very likely result in a rejection.

Read around your topic A LOT so that you can speak intelligently when building your relationships and crafting your topic. Do your research to find out what the cool kids are saying in your niche.

Also, don't pick the superstar academics in your target department, or the Chair or head of department. They won't have the time or interest to take on a "borderline" (unless you're being unreasonably hard on yourself!) application because they're either flat out or in a position to cherry pick.

Look for the person who probably doesn't have too many supervision requests and nuance your topic SPECIFICALLY to their most research interests. Court them, but don't ask them to do any "work" for you yet - like, don't ask them for detailed feedback on your research proposal out of the blue!

You are vanishingly unlikely to get funding, so can you afford the fees?

I'm average at best academically. I got a 2:1 in my undergrad and a merit in my MRes. But I managed to not only get accepted to a PhD where I chose my own topic but I also got offered funding to do it. You don't have to be a first class student you just have to prove you have a good topic, that it's doable in the timeframe and that you are committed. Do your research on supervisors, get a few meetings with potential ones and show them you are passionate about your topic, and get them on side. I'd also suggest looking at options for funding. I know you say you'll self fund but it's so much more than just the fees, you'll have living expenses, conference expenses, training expenses etc.

Go for it tho! You can do this if you want to do it 🍀😊

Thank you for all the replies they are really helpful.

@pfizerfizzer I definitely have tenacity and commitment.

@ToodlesMcGee I would want to create my own project ideally as I have some ideas in mind already. I am also reassured that the workload will be and that I will cope. Tbh I was shocked to even get onto my Master's course as I didn't think I was good enough and even though I am not great I was the only person in our small group who finished the whole course.

@astoundedgoat thank you for the really helpful advice. I've had a look at the supervisors list at my preferred university but all the specialities were quite general so I definitely need to do some research into who would be best. My focus would be related to the topic of my master's dissertation and I read very thoroughly for that so I am hoping that helps me. As for funding I intended on getting a student loan.

@onlymyselftoanswerto1 my grades were a 2:2 and a pass I feel like I can demonstrate my commitment and explain why my topic is important. I think writing the proposal would be fine as I'm ok with things like that. It's the academic writing I need to improve on. I will definitely start looking into it more. I wasn't sure if I would get funding as there are probably more worthy candidates. I am also unsure how it all works so I will have a look into it all properly.

Read a couple of PhD theses related to your subject and see what the workload would be. Then rather that doubt yourself think about how that student would have panicked and fretted and doubted throughout, but still made it.

How stubborn and tenacious are you? That's probably at least 50% of it.

Disclaimer I'm considering one. 2:1 and a pass at MA

You still passed tho! You have a masters too and that's great - especially given all the hurdles you've had to get over along the way. The grades are definitely only one part of the process, of course they'll take them into consideration but there are other things for them to consider too. I'm a year and a half in and I struggle with the academic writing, as well as imposter syndrome and all the other fears that go along with this pathway - but it's a learning curve and it never has to be perfect, it can't be, as long as you're willing to learn and accept (shit tonnes in my case) criticism then you'll progress. Today I wrote 1000 words - tmw I'll be lucky if I write 10 🤣

Definitely look into funding, it may not be available, but you definitely won't get it if you don't ask 😊

Post and ask questions here - there's lots of us happy to help!

@elfycat I have read through some of the key theses of my area of interest to reference in my Master's dissertation and I used them to help me improve my structure. They felt like a longer version of the dissertation just two parts and more scientific. I also feel like the people who have written them are really clever and academic. I get imposter's syndrome.

I think I would be fine organising and researching it all, it is the writing up part I worry about. The main areas that I worry about are that my writing isn't academic enough or at least could be improved. When I read other people's work it sounds very scientific if that makes sense and mine is much more basic.
I also know I need to improve my analysis skills. I would hope to improve them by the time I wrote my work up and I would ensure I get the help I need before hand.

@onlymyselftoanswerto1 thank you, I'm feeling much more positive. I feel like as long as someone will accept me then the parts I'm worried about (writing) can be fixed or learnt.

I'm writing as an academic who supervises lots of PhD students in science.

I hate to put a downer on things, but you do not sound like a strong candidate for doing a PhD. First, with a 2:2 at BSc and a pass at MSc, you will find it very hard to get PhD funding. Doing an unfunded PhD is v expensive and almost always a bad investment of time & money.

Second (assuming this PhD idea is not maths etc), your PhD will involve a LOT more writing than your MSc and a LOT more independence. if you struggled at MSc level, you will find it even harder at PhD level.

Third, because you aren't a v strong candidate, the best supervisors will probably say no. which means that if you do find a PhD supervisor who says 'yes', they might not actually be very good or be able to support you in the right way.

I'm guessing from your posts that you want to contribute to an area of research that is close to your heart and experience. There can be lots of ways to contribute to research without doing a PhD. For example, many researchers will recruit people with lived-experience of a particular topic as consultants on a project etc. I do know of cases where this role has lead to a (funded) PhD later. You could get in touch with researchers in your field and see if there are opportunities to link up with a research team, without having to take on the formal requirements of a PhD. Good luck with it.

@parietal thank you for a different view point it is really useful.

In terms of funding, I know I'm not a strong candidate hence wanting to self fund. The expense would be worth it for me.

I was trying to keep the details vague but I will go ahead as I think overall it may help more specific answers. The area is autism in education. I was always on the more independent side throughout previous study and did not receive much help. The first university I was with was awful in terms of help and support so I was only just learning all the things I should have learnt at the second university.
The reason my grades were on the lower side were due to major unexpected life events, having a high needs child and juggling work, running a household as well as raising two children whereas I wouldn't have all of that if I were to do a PhD. Instead of it being a side focus fitting in around everything else, I would do it full time and it would be my sole focus. I'm not expecting anymore life events. I would have the time and ability to reach my potential not just a passable attempt to get it out the way. But I understand it may be a case of too little too late. I also have some small but key undiagnosed issues which I'm in the middle of getting diagnosed which I couldn't get help with before as I didn't have a diagnosis. Totally my fault for not getting help sooner or not being able to face it etc. It's something that I can overcome though quite easily with help.

Thank you for the advise about contributing in other ways. I will look into it further and explore what other options their may be.

Hi @PhDornottoPhD

I guessed this might be autism or another mental health condition.

do you have a strong idea of what university / research group you want to be in? do you know your potential supervisor? Or will you be applying for PhDs all over the place?

have you looked into roles as a 'lived experience expert'? That can be a really good way to spend time in a lab & get close to research, almost like having an RA position. If you did that for a year, you would then be in a much stronger position to apply for a PhD because you would know more about the research group you could join for a PhD & you'd have the inside track on funding etc. DM me if you want names of academics who might be recruiting for that role.

@parietal thank you, I have sent you a DM.

Hi, I’m a current pt PhD student balancing it with full time work in education and lots of other commitments. It’s tough but doable. Happy to talk further if that’s helpful. Where are you based?

Thanks for this thread- I've done a BA, am currently doing the MEd, and considering a phd too! The process is overwhelming me though and as I don't currently work, I'm worried I won't be seen as a good candidate as don't have any current work experience.

So great to read of others thinking about this. I graduated first time around in 2000 so before doing a PhD I decided to take another Masters. I'm on track for a distinction but as I read through my thesis I think that it's just not doctoral level writing. Is this just something I'd become better at the more I do it?

As someone else suggested, I work part-time as a researcher alongside my masters. I love my job and I have learnt so much about rhe research process so highly recommend it!

I have thought about a self-funded PhD and considering European universities as the fees are so low. But the posts have reminded me how important contacts are so I think I need to prioritise that for a while. I hate networking!