Paleo and primal

[Daughteroughter]

I have been reading about paleo and primal diets has anyone tried them?

Oh I see you are veggie... Well, it depends on what animal protein you do eat - if you eat eggs and cheeses I don't think you need the pulses (which are not really ideal foods), if you don't eat eggs, Well, you need to get protein from somewhere. I think there are ways of preparing them (sprouting?soaking?) which reduces a lot of the natural seed toxins in them - I don't have any experience of doing that tho, maybe someone else on the thread does.

why are pulse seeds different from seed seeds?

Infamous, they contain lectins, toxins and other bad stuff, read here:

www.marksdailyapple.com/lectins/#axzz2VF2mvBAZ

Kidney beans are poisonous, if you don't soak them, as you probably know.

And yes, by soaking and/or sprouting you can lower the toxins.

On another not, finally found something to do with turnips:

paleospirit.com/2012/turnip-hash-browns-with-pulled-pork/

hmm, I'll have to wait to go full paleo until the cupboard is empty of chick peas

Seeds and nuts... Generally all seeds and nuts have natural toxins in them because they don't "want" to be eaten, they "want" to grow into a new plant/tree iykwim. Some kinds have a lot more toxins than others, some animals are adapted to eat certain kinds of seeds/nuts without harm.

We can often eat small amounts of nuts/seeds with no harm, larger amounts might cause gut pain, digestive upset and stress the liver (which has to deal with the toxins). Cooking breaks down a lot of the toxins, makes things more digestible. Removing the husk or brown covering off seeds and nuts helps too (As a lot of the bitter compounds are in the outer coating).

That's one of the big issues with grains- we are not very well adapted for eating grains as a major food group. And we eat A LOT of grain foods. Even processed and cooked, they have a lot of negative effects (I don't just mean for people with intolerance or allergy to various grain proteins), just digesting and processing the toxins in the liver takes a lot of minerals and vitamins away from other bodily needs- such as building strong bone (its often things like magnesium, and vit D, not calcium which is the problem, and processing grain toxins in the liver requires these, leaving less(or none!), for bone building, leading to thinner and less strong bone .

"Healthy Grains" implicated yet again!

I know ridiculous, isn't it? Number of times i try to explain to quinoa/wild rice/"glutenfree" aka high carb saying friends but theres so little general understanding.

John Briffa is good & quick on this in Escape the Diet Trap; Gary Taubes' Why we get Fat, more lengthy.

Misscph, I'm one of those strange people who loves turnip! As a Scottish person, "turnip" to me is the big orange kind, the small white ones being "swede"... Anyway the big orange ones are lovely mashed with butter and herbs as a side dish or as a shepherd pie topping (great with carrot or sweet potato mash mixed in if you want a bit more carb).
But also, fairly big chunks work well thrown in with a roast of meat or a casserole as it holds its shape and after absorbs the meaty flavours, and tastes a lot more "starchy" than it is. I did try making chips out of turnip, but it didn't work very well!

Salbertina, I'll have to see if I can find a copy to read, I do like a bit of science !

Hi all, I have been lurking a while but think I remember Salbertina and snow from 5:2?

I found my way to paleo sites from comments on 5:2 threads, recently I had started gaining weight and with less than 2 weeks until a family hol I decided to give fasting a break for a while and follow briffa guidelines have also been moving a bit back to organic food (but budget might get in the way here). I have been very relaxed about things but having nuts a little fruit and dairy plus wine and birthday cake etc on occasion but have still lost about 8 lbs in about 3 weeks so very happy and kind of relieved as thought I might have a thyroid problem. Its only been a short while but I feel a lot less depressed, maybe that's because I have cut right back on grains, rice etc or maybe its because we have had a nice hol and I have felt more successful for losing weight?

I have also stumbled upon blogs/ threads on the GAPS diet and it occured to me that my oldest child might benefit from a change of diet, he is 7 years old on the 10th centile for weight (his dad is 6ft2) and can be up and down with moods concentration etc, he has also had reflux and excema etc in the past which was/is improved by adjusting diet. I wouldn't want to do GAPS or anything but I think embracing the paleo ideals a bit more and reducing gluten and processed food might be beneficial to our whole family.

Sorry for the essay but thought it might be nice to delurk!

Hello! You might find that just removing gluten containing grains has a big impact ( if the child isn't keen on paleo foods, home made chips (frozen often have gluten sprayed on!), and white rice might help keep familiar foods on his plate while you introduce new things. If he is underweight for his hight centile, you might want to add more rich foods like fattier cuts of meat, cheese and cream if you eat it, blanched almonds etc.

There is a lot of stuff on "wheatbelly" blog about gluten containing grains and mood, depression, concentration (as well as all the usual autoimmune and metabolic syndrome stuff you may have read elsewhere).

However you really have to watch labels, you need to remove all gluten, all the hidden stuff, to get the best effect.

Hi Giraffe welcome to he Paleo thread! I still fast twice a week, but I don't calorie count my evening meal - I got too bored with low fat food, got bored calorie counting. I thought 5:2 would allow me to be a bit more relaxed about carbs but reintroducing wheat made me feel pretty rough, so I'm on the Paleo path.
I attempt to keep my dcs off gluten as much as I can, we don't do too bad, they have potatoes, rice and the occasional portion of gluten free pasta and I have a list of tried and tested treat recipes so they don't feel like they are missing out too much, it's a fine line with introducing a new eating approach to kids, they are always on the cusp of rebelling and you've got to keep them willingly on board.

Infamous, it took me ages to use up chickpeas as well ;) Google Tim Ferriss and the 4 hour body, he includes legumes in his paleo-like, grain-free WOE, very interesting.

Raw, I love the big orange turnips as well, where I live (Berkshire), they call them suede (I'm Danish, and I am not even sure what they call it in DK, as it's not very common there). Unfortunately the rest of the family doesn't like them. I also like the small purple and white turnips (that's the ones I made hash browns with), but I normally only use them in stews. I think this hash brown is great because it really brings out the turnip flavour, which is actually quite delicate.

Welcome, giraffes, I also found Paleo via 5:2 - and I still fast (light).

Been food logging today - 1500 calories, 50 g carbs, 110 fat and 90 protein, and I feel full and satisfied. Think I would have eaten more if I wasn't logging though ;)

Misscp can you share you food diary for the day that produced those stats? Would be interesting to see.

Thanks RawCM luckily ds likes nuts, he had a handful of brazils for his snack after school and my dd's had fruit - prob an improvement on sains basic digestives I imagine! He doesn't like sauces unfortunately or soup or anthing like that which is a shame because it would be a good way of upping nutrients and fat. App hagen das vanilla is pretty pure so that might be an occasional treat to up cals? One regret is that I have never managed to get them interested in natural yog even with fruit or honey.

misscph and snow I am relieved I'm not the only one coming over from 5:2 - (part of the reason I have only just said hello was that I felt embarresed for diet hopping) but there does seem to be lots of crossover with paleo/primal and fasting.

The fasting hasn't totally ended for me either, I have still been skipping breakfast or lunch occasionally, but only when I am busy or don't feel hungry or there is no suitable food for me to eat - now that I know it's ok and potentially a healthy thing to do it feels fine to do this and its also easier when eating lc meals. I don't feel I can face the 500 cal thing twice a week for now so it will prob be more about periods of time without cals for me when I resume properly too.

I'm not logging on mfp this week but what protein levels are people aiming for, I think mine were a bit high before half term - well over 100g?

removing grains has made a massive difference. The bloated belly has gone. The anti-depressants have gone. My skin is clear and the lethargy has gone. I'm still tired as child wakes many times a night so I never get enough sleep but its tired because of that, not 'grain tired' IYSWIM.

What are the thoughts on sweet potato? I'm having sweet potato wedges left over from last night for brekkie with chopped raw cabbage in mayo and salmon from last night. Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurve sweet pot in olive oil. Normal potatoes upset my tummy.

Hi Giraffes. Well done on your weight loss. :)

It can be difficult to bring children aboard. I started by removing all gluten products, there are so many recipes out there to enable you to make the switch. If you were to post your ds's favourite meals we could find substitute recipes that we've tested and were successful.

I remember the days of ds being a really fussy eater all to well!
You mention your ds liking Hagen das ice cream. You could make your own at home by making custard with cream, a little honey, instead of milk and sugar. It won't be as fluffy as the bought one. The fluffyness is due to injected air and sugar but it's easy to beat by hand the home-made now again whilst it's freezing and once it's almost there and still scoopable, transfer to ramikins/glasses/ice lolly tray for individual portions. It will taste nicer than Hagen das and what's more, you choose your flavour.

A super quick alternative is to put a tin of coconut milk in the fridge for a few hours, where it will solidify (and leave water at the bottom). You can blitz some fruit and the coconut 'cream', put in the freezer for 15-20 mins for an almost instant ice-cream. Using fruit will disguise the taste of coconut but if your children like bounty, you could melt a little chocolate into the coconut cream.
Equally freezing ripe bananas, ready to blend with other fruit, is another alternative to bought ice-cream.

infamous Sweet potatoes are yummy, strangely they never make it to breakfast in this house! They're great after exercise, just remember they still have starch. :)

I'm not after weight loss, just feeling better after years of health issues caused by undiagnosed coeliacs. A stone did fall off but I really dont want to lose any more or my norks will get even smaller! My BMI is 20.
So a bit of starch should be ok unless it could hurt my recovery?

snow, I used MyFitnessPal, but I can't find a way to copy the content properly, but here is a rough overview:

Breakfast: Smoothie - 50 g fresh spinach, a bag of basil, 200 ml coconut milk (Koko, from a carton) and lime juice. 50 g Waitrose coarse farmhouse paté, 1 slice ham. tea with almond milk.

Lunch: 100 g smoked mackerel, 2 scrambled eggs, 100 g turnip/onion hash brown. Tea with almond milk.

Snack: Beef broth (with the beef lard that is produced)

Dinner: Homemade chicken curry with coconut (leftover from Sunday) with bak choi/carrot/onion stirfry and side salad with spinach, tomato, black olives and olive oil. Tea with almond milk, 3 almonds, a spoonful of coconut fat as I was still hungry, a few bits of fruit.

I find it very interesting to log food, never done it before, not even counted calories. If anything, it makes you think about what you eat, as there are certain things you just don't want to see next to your name on a screen ;) The above was 1500 calories or so, but I certainly made up for it this morning with 2 lamond flour pan cakes with 4 rashers of bacon, 1/2 banana and blueberries - 840 calories!

Giraffes, don't feel embarrassed, you are not diet hopping, you are just trying to find what suits you. I have gone from vegetarian to non-vegetarian to vegetarian to vegan to 5:2 to Paleo myself. There is only one way to find what suits you - try it out.

I don't feel I can face 500 calories a day / the 5:2 diet either, but I can definitely do intermittent fasting when it suits me. I believe that with fasting the important thing is not how many calories you eat but how long a break you give your digestion.

Re protein levels, it depends on your weight, you activity levels and your goals. Read here:

www.marksdailyapple.com/how-much-protein-should-you-be-eating/#axzz2VF2mvBAZ

100 g might not be too much. I had 90 g protein yesterday and I weigh 62 kg. I exercise moderately so that is probably about right for me. After reading The China Study 2 years ago I still find it hard to accept that I can have that much protein and I would prefer to have a higher fat ratio.

infamous, sounds like me, my BMI is about 20 as well and my boobs don't need to get any smaller ;) Would love it my thighs and bum would migrate upwards though! A few years ago I was 3 kg lighter and although my bum and thighs looked pretty good, I had such a flat chest, thin arms and face and it didn't really suit me. So I am hoping that lifting heavy weights will tone my bum and thighs.

Starches should not harm you. Sweet potatoes should be just fine as a side in moderation. Paleo is low carb, not zero carb.

infamous The fun side of this thread: some of us want to loose weight, some want to maintain, some might want to gain weight!

miss At 62kg and a bmi of 20, you must be really tall

Thanks, Fava, I'm 176 cm. As I have such a flat chest, I can't carry much more weight, it always goes straight on the thighs and bum, never on the chest! Would love to be more top heavy!

Yeah, but being top heavy means all tops look like tents! The choice is huge on waist or flesh on display - not a pretty sight at my age! And when you find those stretchy pretty 'blouse' T-shirts, you belly button might be on display!

;) The grass is always greener... I have such trouble finding bras, most of my cup size are teenage, so the straps are not long enough over the shoulders. And very few tops with cleavage suit me, most of them look baggy and too big on me.

Right, 2200 calories today, 50 carbs, 166 fat, 118 protein, and I feel great! This food logging is really interesting.