exh, overseas contact unacompanied minor aged 5 [shock]

[Madascheese]

I was self repping in court yesterday - ex couldn't organise his life to abide by the court order so took me to court in an attempt to get it changed (yes you DID read that right, he broke the Court Order 3 tmes and then decided I should be the one punsihed WTF)
Anyway, successfully defended myself and got that sorted when at the end of the hearing his solicitor drops in to conversation that he will be applying for an order to allow LittleMad to travel on the plane as an unaccompanied minor when he gets to the age of 5.

To say I was shocked that he wouldn think this is appropriate is a bit of an understatement.

Anyone with contact overseas got any advice on this? Do you know if there is an likely age the Court will find it acceptable?

Thanks

Lots of airlines don't offer this service, particularly the budget ones. And the ones that do have strict guidelines. British Airways for example charge full adult rate for the child, plus a fee on top. So depending on where you ex lives it may well be cheaper for him to fly over on a budget flight and fly them both back. Of course it does depend on whether his time is more valuable to him than his money (or his child for that matter).

www.britishairways.com/travel/childinfo/public/en_gb

The issue shouldn't be that the airline will do this at the age of 5 so your child should do it, the issue for the court should be is this particular child ready and happy to do this. For example is your ds regularly travelling by plane to visit his dad at the moment and therefore well used to planes and airports, or will flying be completely new to him?

I think you have to consider if you would, for example, let your child go to school on a school bus, whether to school or on a school trip (a situation where they would be looked after on the journey and seen door to door). It is kind of the same thing, just a different mode of transport. A family member has to sign them over at the airport and confirm the details of who will collect the child. Your child will not be given to anyone except the person you confirm is expected to collect them.

Don't get yourself all worked up about it at this point. When your ds is 5 and your ex requests it, if you don't think he is ready then you don't have to agree to it. If your Ex pushes the point he will have to go to court to resolve it if you can not agree. The court will take a while to reach a decision by which time your ds will be a little older anyhow and you may feel more comfortable with it by then anyhow. On the otherhand your Ex may have decided it's all too much hassle after all and be long gone by then. They say that about 50% of father's lose touch with their kids 2 years after separation.

Not that i'm suggesting this is good for the child, and it's not something I think should ever happen, but if your Ex hasn't managed to stick to the court order which I'm sure he fought hard to get, then how likely is he to stick to it over the next couple of years? That's all I mean.

where do you think it will be too....which country?

I wouldn't want this. I live on an island, and know so many stories of unaccompanied minors on flights that get returned to base or worse still diverted to airports in a completely different area where they know no-one and the air hostess has to look after them overnight in a hotel in a strange town.

I will never put my children on flights as unaccompanied minors, and one of them is a teenager.

It's Holland.

he goes at the moment with Dad on the plane. Dad is looking to reduce the costs/inconveience of the contact visits (to himself not littlemad)

Have just got to set up a webcamming session for littlemad and Dad so back later, but thanks for the replies so far - glad it's notjust me being overprotective/obstructive.

Please try to gather as much evidence as possible that he's unreliable and unorganised. Keep a diary, save text messages etc.

If he can't organise himself then your son will be left waiting at the airport for a father that can't get his act together enough to turn up and meet him off the plane. The airline staff will be within their rights to call police/social services if this happens and it'll scare your son.

My ex can't be bothered to meet his ds (age 11) off a short train journey.

Not a chance in hell would I let a 5 year old child travel alone! Yes they're accompanied by a member of staff but would you hand your child over to somebody you don't know in the street? No no no no no no no!!!
I work in travel and I have booked unaccompanied minors to travel but never any as young as 5!!!
I think the fact that he thinks it is reasonable shows his lack of care and consideration for the child. I know when I was 5 I would have been a crying wreck if my mum had left my with a stranger at the airport.
NO NO NO NO NO NO!!

Thanks everyone,

I know of people my sort of age who would have travelled as unaccompanied minors at that age, but that was 30 umm about 10 years ago

I can't comprehend it, and given it would be extra time they could spend together I'm really grrrr about it, he's been trying to palm this journey off ever since he moved away - actually asked the Judge to rule I should make and pay for the journeys for contact - Judge told him to bugger off think again.

I was put on planes (2 transit stops) as a 5 year old UM. I always said I'd send my kids like that...before I had kids.

Never in a million years would I do that. My parents saw me off at the gate. It was a different way of travelling back then. That was nearly 30 years ago. No way would I do this to my child.

Tell your ex to fuck off and think about the safety and wellbeing of his DS before he thinks of his wallet, the selfish prick.

Kitty - will you be my new best friend?? - that's exactly what I'm thinking.

It's bloody hard enough for littlemad to go away as it is let alone for Mummy to hand him over to a stranger for the flight.

Thank you

I will MAC

Your gut feeling is right. a few times there was no one to pick me up when we got to the transit airport and the female flight attendants took pity on me and took me in their bus to the gate, not wanting to chance it waiting for OPS who might never come. I was dropped at the wrong gate, etc. My first language isn't English and though I could speak it it obviously wasn't great. I have always met lovely, kind people who took the time to smooth out other people's mistakes and get me safely to where I needed to go.

Times have changed though and what was fine in the 80's is a lot bigger and scarier now. Air travel has grown and cuts are made everywhere. Also Schiphol is a big hub and I wouldn't be comfortable leaving my child at the mercy of an overworked and underpaid person who's a stranger to littlemad. (And presumably won't care or might forget, etc)

I worked for an airport front desk in uni and have had my fair share of UM's. I have sneakily always issued extra boarding passes for at least one parent but with security so tight these days I don't know if that's still possible.

You're his Mum, you know your child. Go with your gut feeling. Your ex is unreasonable and should something happen he'd never forgive himself for saving a few bob.

I think men have a totally different perception of these kinds of situations. you might remember I replied to some of your previous posts and I have an exh in Canada who was requesting the same thing.

If I remember correctly my response to him re sending dd at age 5 UAM was somthing along the lines of "over my dead body, I would never take her to the airport, the police would have to break into my house and prise her from my iron grip.....yada yada yada" I think you get the gist.

However I am ok with her being accompanied by someone familiar that takes the onus off of him doing all the travelling(family member). Perhaps you or he have someone who would be willing to help you out in this way (brothers/sisters/parents)?

Going bak to the men are from mars angle, he really didn't see my issue with UAM travel and totally percieved it as another babysitting occaision which reuired no familiarity with the person providing the service. Ultimately he was only concerned with his own wants/needs and not dd. Sounds the same for you.

good luck and stand firm.xx