Ok, so what ^do^ you do when your child's father is like this?

[Flightattendant]

I think I need to start this with a face, just as a precursor

I posted yesterday about my mixed up feelings about ds1's dad. I asked for it to be deleted because it turned into more about me than ds...and I was feeling very muddled.

Having slept on it, the thing I need proper help with is what to do about ds, so I would really appreciate outside perspectives, particularly from people who have been there as children, if anyone can stand to think back...I know it might be difficult.

basically, ds' father is the sort of man who is absolutely lovely on the surface, kind, gentle, very encouraging and involved...he is the perfect dad, in all those ways. But only when he is there.
He is also an alcoholic.
His pattern of behaviour seems to be based on avoidance (sorry for still analysing him but it might help me figure out how to handle it iyswim) and he is terrified of any confrontation or emotional trouble. He cannot and will not discuss his own childhood with anything other than positivity and denial - when I tried to explain I thought he had been hurt by boarding at age 7, he went silent and wouldn't speak to me for a few days - thatw as years ago. So we can deduce that's a correct assumption I think!
He hasn't seen ds since he was 1 and a half - he stopped coming when he found our emotional problems got too heavy, and made excuses for a few years. I turned up on his doorstep when ds was in reception and asked him to watch the school play but he refused saying he was working.
Ds has increasingly been mentioning his dad, or this idea he has of a dad, for a few months. He wants his own dad, like all his friends have. I have promised to try and get his dad to see him but the dilemma is whether this is a good idea or not.
Surely to know his dad would help him - if only to see the reality of it and not mourn so much for something he's never experienced?

But when a parent acts in this way I know it could create more damage. People said yesterday 'don't think about this man, move on' but that's not so easy when ds asks to see him so often. It comes out of the blue - I rarely mention him (despite doing so when we saw him yesterday, which I understand I shouldn't have, and won't again)

His pattern of behaviour with his children is to be totally loving and hands on towards them, then leave. He did it to the older two, and couldn't seem to respond to their distress - he has a total block there - and has completely done the same to ds. So they adore him utterly, but have to chase him to see them - literally, in ds' case as he ran after his car yesterday.

It's so painful - but is it better for ds not to meet this man at all, or for me to arrange for him to meet him but then risk rejection all over again? Should we forget about him entirely? I don't think ds can do that tbh.

I have no idea what would hurt ds the least - please don't be angry with me, I have lain awake night after night worrying about this. I want ds to be OK above everything else and feel so guilty at the way it has gone.

thankyou.

why on earth would we be angry with you?

you are a wonderful mum to worry about your ds and you are simply trying to do the best for him. I feel your pain.

A difficult situation, but I think overall, you should try to get your ds to see his Dad,(if his dad is willing) rather than hope that you can all pretend he doesn't exist.

How old is your ds? Prepare your ds as far as possible for the disappointments by explaining that his dad is
"not very good at being a Daddy".

Thankyou...i know I shouldn't have said 'Oh look, that's your dad!' to him when I saw him in the car...that was wrong and I ought to have just kept my mouth shut. I deserve people's anger for that...I didn't think through the correct boundaries and how best not to hurt him, plus getting it mixed up with how I felt about his dad...iyswim.

Part of the issue is I remember well how nice the man used to be when we were together, holding his arms out, being so so lovely with ds - funny and sweet and kind - and I always imagine that when we see him now, he will be the same, but truthfully, the fact he refused to come to the play that time says a lot doesn't it.
I think whatever I try and do I have to keep it hidden somehow from ds, so he isn't mortified when his dad says no - if he says no, that is.

i just feel so helpless in the face of such extreme passive aggression I suppose. You never know how the man is going to behave, you can never pin him down - he used to say he'd be somewhere then go somewhere else deliberately, even when he took ds out. He wouldn't give me a telephone number, lied about where he was living - all through fear of being 'predictable' maybe or just fear in general. He is a v strange bloke.

gad he sounds a total nightmare and am not surprised you would prefer to forget him.

How sad that you have these tantalizing snapshots of how he can/could-if-he-chose be,............ how much you would love to have that funny sweet and kind dad for your ds.

I so hope that you can find a way that your ds can satisfy his understandable yearning to know who his dad is - whilst still protecting him - and let him find out gradually that his dad is a twat.

Do you know much about passive-aggression (I don't) - what I mean is that if he really is PA, would it help you to know more about it?

thanks for understanding...yes, I know a bit about PA but the crucial thing with it as that you cannot change it - you have to either put up with the pendulum behaviour, or walk away. I will go and read about it again though, that's a good idea...it might give me some ideas. x

Hi Flightattendant, sorry to hear you're struggling with this. I can totally sympathise with you because it's a dilemna many of us have had.

My ex has not been a good Father since we split up when my DD was 3 and he moved overseas and refused to visit her. So for first 2.5 years, I took her to see him.

Eventually he came to see her but very sporadically. I felt it was important for her to know him and be able to talk about "my Dad" and I'm glad I did it.

But following agreement a few months ago with our lawyers on arrears and proper regulated access, he is once again refusing to come see her, claiming he can't afford it. He can afford it but it's a good spin for him (ex wife bleeding him dry, woe is me, can't afford to visit my child etc.) He feels he lost out in the negotiations & he knows I want him to see our DD so it's his way of punishing me.

However, it does leave me wondering now if I was right to push him to maintain a relationship with her because now she's at that age where she does seem to crave his attention and she keeps asking me why he hasn't come to visit and when will she see him again.

She speaks to him weekly on skype but interestingly doesn't ask him those questions, as if she knows she won't like the answer.

I've had professional advice, which does help, and it's something you might try to help you reach a conclusion on what's best long-term. It's a difficult road to head down because you do end up having to make excuses for the absent parent and trying to compensate because they don't always accept responsibility from their side.

Do you have any contact with his family? I've found that it does help to give the child a better sense of their identity if there is some connection with the other grand parents, aunts, uncles etc.

In the meantime, i'd check out some professional advice because your ex does sound very complex.

Hi fa
you can't promise anything to your ds on your ex's behalf, his relationship with his son is HIS responsibility, not yours
I remember my ds going through a phase at age 4/5ish of being obsessed with dads and wanting me to marry a racing driver etc, we weren't in contact with ex then and it was hurtful to watch but it did pass, just treat his questions matter of factly and move on ... can't think of anything else, sorry but hope of some help

you have both really helped, thankyou so much.
I wrote a long reply yesterday but then the connection fell off and lost it, and was too disheartened to write it all again!

Granard it sounds so sad when you say your dd doesn't ask him certain questions, because she knows she won't be able to cope with the answer if it's negative...she already has a defence which is good, really, and might help preserve her feelings a bit.
But so sad he has let it come to this.

I never know whether it's best to say 'daddy is so busy, I'm sure he would love to see you but just has no time' or to say 'actually daddy has some problems and we can't make him better,'
Is it better to make excuses (lie, in other words) or to tell the truth? How can you explain to a child that their dad just can't face seeing them because he is scared - of something - the real problem is I don't understand why he isn't in touch. If I got it, i could try and explain it to ds.

Ninah your first sentence really hit the nail on the head - thankyou. It makes such perfect sense that it's his responsibility and not mine. it's just that with him, he expects everyone to run around after him - as though if we really loved him, we would know where to find him, what he needed to feel able to visit, how to make him comfortable with the arrangements - when actually, this isn't about him any more. I used to make it all about him when we were 'together' but when ds arrived he took second place (after the confusion initially, where I struggled to put ds first as well, for a little while)
and he just cannot be second best. The whole relationship was based around romantic 'games' where I had to turn up and wait for him somewhere, guessing where it would be, or I wouldn't find him. He expected me to know where to look. And when he wanted to see me, he would do stupid things like drive past my house, but not come in? Weird.
Ds sorted me out and I realised how daft it all was, but I expected ex to change as well and become reliable and sensible and he never could.

It seems like he still needs that level of complexity in order to have any contact, and I will NOT have ds chasing him in the car, I just won't stand for it - so I shan't tell ds if I see him again, and I shan't let ds know if I have any contact unless his dad actually turns up as planned in which case yes, he can see ds.
Trouble is writing a letter to him would be construed as pressure, and he will ignore it. It is important to him that he doesn't do what I want him to (PA)
Turning up and pretending not to have known he would be at a certain place would probably do it - but that's unlikely to work out and feels wrong.
Hes's a bit of a lost cause really.

Granard I also meant to say it sounds as though you did do the right thing - you have done your best at every stage, and she has a relationship with him - however shaky the ground - he is real to her and part of her life and her thoughts.

I think that is betetr than having no concept of your father at all, and imagining they are like everyone else's dad's best features, iyswim!

The pain our children go through must be immense. At this moment I could really lamp his dad, I am so furious. But I don't know where he is - know his address but his new wife is quite tough looking and would have me, I know it.

FA: What a complete and utter fucking wanker this man is. What a loser.
I appreciate that you can't tell your poor DS this, but I do think the 'daddy has problems and we can;t make him better' line is probably more helpful than 'daddy is busy'. Because what's most important is for your DS to understand that it's not something he did, that it's not because he isn;t lovely and lovable, that his father's such a wanker.

thanks SGB.

trouble is he had a wonderful, loving, kind side - and probably still does. He has the potential to be an amazing father and out of the two dads my kids have, he is the one I would rather be involved with ds as he is so great when he wants to be. The other one is quite a horrid dad imo though probably more reliable.

I so wish ds could know his nice side. But it seems unfortunately that he just cannot bring himself to be that father for ds.

It's so desperately unfair.

Maybe he is narcissistic as well as PA. Will go and look it up.
But I have to get my head around the fact I cannot make him behave how I want him to - not even for his little boy he really is a prize twat when I think of him in that way.

FA: But he's not wonderful, loving and kind. He just puts on a good act when he can be arsed, probably when he wants something. If he was loving and wonderful, he wouldn't be able to bear hurting his DS feelings over and over again.

Yes...I know. It is such a paradox.
I suspect he is able to bear it precisely because he was sent away at 7 to boarding school and rarely saw his own father. Emotional damage is plain to see.

How can he bear to be there for his own son when it would show him exactly what he missed?

Not that I can alter this - he would need a lot of therapy. It's just so fucking sad.

I've written a quick letter saying things very clearly - that I am writing with the best intentions and that ds wants to see him. I said it would be good if he could get in touch and have given my address.

I also put a small copy of a school photo in for him to have. (not that he deserves it)
and I wrote matter of factly that ds cries because he doesn't have a dad around like his friends, so seeing him might help if he can manage it.

I put 'no hard feelings' and that I want to work together for what ds needs...also regards to his wife and their kids etc.

I will send it recorded or hand deliver it I think. Then at least I have tried. Does this sound Ok? I won't tell ds.

Totally agree with SGB on the importance of your DS understanding that this isn't his responsibility, this is up to the adults to sort out.

I covered for my ex for years and made excuses for him with my DD.

Recently, I've tried to take a more honest approach and I gently explained that her Dad does tend to think of himself before others. Alas, what I've found is that she defends him. She doesn't want to accept that he has faults.

Does your DS know that his Dad is married now with other kids?

How old is your DS? I ask because the 8 to 10 age is when children make the natural transition to the same sex parent and Mummy is no longer their hero in the case of boys!

Your ex sounds totally emotionally stunted and immature. He reached a point in his emotional development and went no further and seems (like my ex) totally incapable of accepting responsibility. Presumably if he went to boarding school at 7, his parenting role model is very different.

Does he pay maintenance?

I can understand what you're trying to do and sending the letter you describe will hopefully yield positive results. However, you do have to be prepared for the fact that he may have an initial interest in seeing your DS and then he'll do another disappearing act, which might be worse.

Also, if he is as you describe, will he resist seeing your DS simply because you have made the request. He sounds like one of those men who don't like demands being made of them, particularly from women.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

spot on Granard he really does his best to resist all calls for normal duty or behaviour...which is amazing considering he is married. I think he has a kind of rule that he will do everything his wife wants BUT at a cost to her, ie with his first marriage, he was unfaithful in the extreme, and of course it was all her fault due to the demands she made
Ds is nearly 7 which is why I have been particularly anxious about this lately - i read somewhere that between 7 and 14 is 'dad' focused for boys
ex had better get a move on really. I don't want ds to be stunted as well.

It's weird how you say your dd defens her dad - that's what ds does too! Mad isn't it? Though maybe not as they must feel awful to think their father isn't a good man.

This is so hard.
Thanks so much for all your thoughts and tips.
I'm not sure still if the letter is a good idea. It will be perceived as nagging, which must be resisted. I could just go and sit in the car without ds and wait for him to go home, and catch him there, but that's really stepping beyond normal boundaries in order to 'make' him do something.

Ds knows daddy is now married, I gave him the basic story in age-appropriate terms but I don't think he really understands. They don't have any children together, she had 3 already and ex had 2. The youngest of hers is now 11, the older ones are 18, 15, 16, and one is almost 21.
So really ds is way younger than any of them and I do wonder how relevant this might be to ex, will he begin to feel guilty at some point (or rather admit to himself that seeing ds is a good idea) now that the others are so unreliant on him...who knows.

I am prepared for the fact he might appear briefly then reject ds. It will be awful but then at least ds will have a direction for his anger...rather than a faceless name, iyswim. They are so similar physically and in other ways, I know they will hit it off but it is going to be difficult for both.

Thanks again...will update if any news. Good luck with your situation. It sounds very difficult x