Ex partner denigrating mum in front of 3 year old

[pinky23]

Hi I wonder if anyone else has been through this situation?
I separated from my partner in a very acrimonious manner, he has anger management issues and is very controlling.

We spent a year in court but finally I was able to start a new life with my son and things have been ok until recently. A contact order is in place and he sees our son every other wend and has 4 weeks holiday a year with him.

My son has very good language skills and is now 3 he has started coming home repeating negative comments he has been told or conversations he has overheard.

He is a lovely innocent intelligent boy and I am heartbroken that this is going to be his first impression of how adults interact. I have never said anything negative and I only ever ask "Have you had a nice time at daddy's" which I do in front of his dad. I also tell him that both his mum and dad love him very much.

I know that he is confused and is being encouraged to keep secrets, being told its "none of your mummys buisness"/ "mummy shouldnt say that" etc. etc. He is being told how to feel and that in my mind is emotional abuse.

We do have a contact order which states that neither of us will denigrate each other or allow our son to be in earshot of anyone who is doing so.

I made sure that this provision went in to the order because my ex teamed up with my own father who supported him against me when we separated!

This may make me sound like a terrible person but the fact is my father is also a nightmare of a man who uses money to buy friends and control people and the reason we fell out (amidst a long history of being critisized and put down) is that I discovered that he had been secretly encouraging my ex to "take me in hand" and to try and force me to give up my hard earnt career - (he doesnt like independent women) and basically become like his 3rd wife who had no financial options whatsoever when she met him so she has chosen to put up with his horrible personality for years.

This all backfired when I found out and challenged my father so now out of spite he invites my ex partner and his mother/sister/girlfriends to holiday with my son at his villa which of course my ex does with relish even though he had only met my father a few times before we separated.

My father denigrated his 2nd wife in front of all my 4 half siblings I watched over the years how they became angry, confused and now probably bitter that they were drawn at such young ages into his battles and had to hear details that no child should have to hear and I have vowed that my son will not have to endure the same experience.

I know this is at the extreme end of the scale but if anyone has had a similar experience I would be grateful to hear from you.

Thanks

Hello. Not quite the same thing, but I have this fear with my ex and my three year old boy. We however have only been split a month, and he is very angry. So I get screamed at, shouted at, sweared at, called all sorts of names in front of him.
I am worried what is/will be said when I'm not around.
I totally sympathise with you though, our smart, vunerable, innocent little boys should not be exposed to this type of behaviour. It makes me sick to my stomach.

pinky, you have my sympathies. And your father too - how awful!

The main thing is to look after your DS's well-being, and you're clearly doing that. At least he has a calm, safe place to be where he doesn't hear other people being denigrated. I think it's fine to tell him that daddy says things are not very nice and to assure him that he needn't keep secrets, but you're doing the right thing by not running down your ex in turn.

You should definitely keep a record of what your ds repeats to you (without pumping him for information).

What you do with it depends on your judgement of your ex. I find that when I let my ex get away with too much, he gets worse. It might be worth sending a solicitor's letter informing your ex that he is in breach of the contact order and that if he continues, his contact will be reviewed. However, this strategy could backfire and your ex might get worse - you'll have to base this on your assessment of his character.

It would be a last resort to actually follow through and deny contact - I would only do this if you think ds is being permanently harmed. But make sure you have as much evidence as possible - both what your ex is saying to your ds, and an objective assessment of the harm being done (by doctor, psychologist etc).

But in my limited experience, things can flare up and die down, so if you can ride this out without dramatic action, it's probably best.

Hi Nicknametaken

I feel very grateful to you for your objective reply It is the first time I have had such support so many thanks. Im lucky my mum and stepdad are great but older and its really worrying for them so I try to keep them out of it.

My ex is very unpredictable I think his moral compass is very wonky! I agree with everything you have said and do try and step back, make light of it in front of my son but I guess if it continues I will have to take him back to court- would his contact be reviewed? sounds like you have had experience of this? not something I want and also solicitors letter is probably the best option.

Have been keeping a record of what my son repeats to me but then wouldnt that just be my word against his? How can one obtain firm evidence of emotional abuse without dragging the child into court?

Thanks again

H

Hi pinky, no problem! Those of us with rotten exes have to stick together!

I haven't had to review our contact and to be honest, I wouldn't like to have to go back to court to do so. I don't think a court would necessarily be very sympathetic - they want parents to sort this stuff out by themselves. Hard when the other parent just won't cooperate! Absent physical danger, it's a relatively empty threat, so if you think your ex will call your bluff, it's not a great one. I'm lucky in that my ex is very concerned about how he appears in front of authority figures, so a solicitor's letter does get him to behave (for a while) but you may not be so lucky.

If you think your ex and father are looking to see a reaction from you, then the best thing is not to give them the satisfaction.

When I say keep a record, I think you should just make a note of what your ds says and when he says it. Yes, it's your word against his, but detailed records kept over a long time do carry some conviction. If your mum and stepdad witness it, add that to your record. I wouldn't go out of your way to find out this stuff unless your ds wants to offload it.

You do have my sincere sympathy that your dad is like this too. Trying to get you to give up your career so you're stuck in a bad relationship - words fail. That's the opposite of what a father should do!

Hi Happysadconfused

I feel for you very much, I too was verbally abused when we separated my ex threatened to burn my belongings and tried to sell the family home and force myself and then year old son out of the house as he had accepted a new and better paid job 2 hours away and all he was concerned with was earning more money and getting us out.

I became so concerned about his behaviour as my son witnessed him shouting and making threats that I managed to get a court injunction against him which meant he could only come to the house at certain times.

You can contact the Domestic violence helpline if you feel scared for your safety I was told that verbal abuse is domestic violence and the police and court do take it very seriously. You must write everything down and keep a diary of what happens.

I also found a great solicitor who was so appalled by his behaviour she offered to take me on as her last legal aid case.

My ex was ordered not to sell the house under the childrens act and a judge actually shamed him in court it was only at that point that he even acknowledged my sons needs.

My ex is a bully and yours sounds like he is too, you feel vunerable and at your lowest ebb right now but you must try and be strong because bullies are cowards and feed off your fear.

Believe me it took a lot of courage to stand my ground especially as I have my own father also a bully backing my ex.

You are in the thick of this terrible situation and it will get better he would be a psycho to stay angry at that level forever.

I hope it helps if I tell you it will get better in time.

Good luck and keep strong.

Dear Nicknametaken

again many thanks I am an optimist at heart ( which really pisses them off) and both my ex and father are clearly angry to the core as these are not the actions of happy men.

It has taught me that money ( he is very wealthy) really doesnt buy you happiness and financial independence for women is the way forward. I was told at one stage that my career was not conducive to being a good mother!.

My ex tried to use the fact that I am a freelancer in court to undermine my ability as a mum! Interestingly the 60 year old male judge basically told him to get a life and stop being so controlling.

I think he does care what authority figures think so a solicitors letter may help and just being aware of his modus operand may help my son in the future if he needs it.

Awful to feel so betrayed by ones own father especially as I bent over backwards to be supportive of him when he went through his second divorce- nice of him to return the favour!.

Wonder what ex's friends and new GF really think of him being my fathers new adopted son? must realise he wouldnt be staying in touch if he lived in a council block in Peckham! (not that there is anything wrong with that!).

Using my son as an excuse to get free luxury hols I think is rather low behaviour. I guess at least I cant be accused of being a Gold digger, am sure the will has been ammended- again!!

Good talking to you anyhow

Take care

Pinky - no advice but read your post and if I had a sister I'd think we shared the same father. for you, from your description it sounds like your father and mine are clones...no wisdom to offer unfortunately, but .

hello ladies.
Thanks so much for your advice pinky. (didn't mean to hijack your thread).
It is very useful...helpful as you are further on down the road. What a nightmare you're going through, especially with your dad involved, you're dealing with such a betrayal on top of everything else, and still find time to give out advice! What a kind lady you are.
I rang the womens outreach (domestic abuse helpline) last Monday actually, I've had the leaflet for three weeks, but eventually felt I could ring them only this week. I have an appointment in a fortnight. I'm finding it hard to really believe the 'abuse' and 'bully' labels to be honest. I know it I think, but can't really believe it of my ex, I think in my mind I'm still defending him at some level, even though he was screaming abuse and shouting that I was a slut in the middle of the street after dropping off our son Sunday, while my son was in my arms!
I will take your advice and start keeping a diary too, I have no idea which course this situation is going to take, and my memory is terrible!
Thanks again....I should start my own thread though huh!

Horrible situation and I have experienced the same thing - although in my case my DSS's mother is the one saying innappropriate and hurtful things. You can only offer support, make it clear that it is OK for your DS to love his Daddy despite the fact that Daddy says 'funny things' sometimes, and that you aren't upset or worried by it.

This has meant, for us, that DSS can tell me about the remarks that bother him, ask questions if he needs to, and that seems to make him happier.

If you think a sol's letter will get your ex to back down then go for it - but not if you think LO will get in trouble for 'tattling' or that the negative attention will provoke ex to up the ante.

Court, however, I would strongly advise against. You never know, of course, but from my experience it is highly unlikely that the court would be willing to do anything about it. Well, what could they do?

Hi Tanga

thanks for your advice, do you think all the negative comments will eventually backfire on your ex? you sound very cool about the situation and I admire the way you deal with it.

I guess I have seen it work the other way when my father did it to my half siblings and they believed everything he said about their mum she was demonised!.

Although ironically 3 out of 4 now live with her but she says they disrespect her an awful lot.
The boys are very damaged, in trouble with police, dropped out of education and a string of other problems needless to say my father dumped both of them having caused these problems and now wants nothing to do with them!.

My son and I are very close and Im lucky to spend a lot of time with him, he tends to repeat what he has heard at bedtime or out of the blue which is his way of asking questions.

We spent a year in court and have seen Cafcass a number of times, ex has already been told that it would be detrimental to my son to overhear me being slagged off, so I know they are on my side on that one.

Think court would be willing to do something if the whole situation were brought to light ie my ex taking advise from my dad, my dads history ( I have witnesses) and I guess long term if I felt it were damaging his emotional health to a great extent my sons own evidence in front of Cafcass, although it would have to be v bad before I brought him into it.

Take your points though so thanks

Well, in all honesty, I really hope her comments don't backfire on her, because her little boy loves her. Luckily (and with the court system I've seen, it really is a question of luck) DSS gets to spend enough time with his Daddy to at least understand that something is not quite right with the things that mammy says sometimes. He sees the reality of the situation, just like your son will. It's funny what upsets them (and I don't mean it's FUNNY, you know?) but of all the things he has repeated (and I'm sure that's the tip of the iceburg) the one that made him really cry out of anger was when she said Daddy was a 'coward'. And that was one of the least vicious, I can tell you.

Cafcass always make you think they are on your side, it appears to be how they work. It doesn't mean that they will back you if you try to go back to court, and at 3, your son's 'evidence' will not be heard.

Hi Tanga

Im so sorry your son is having to endure this awful behaviour I feel that this subject should be taken more seriously in court.

You are right kids do see the reality of a situation, its just that at 3 yrs is so young I feel he could be doing permanent damage even though he spends majority of his time with me. My ex has no empathy whatsoever and was emotionally hijacked like this by his own mother, who also tries to do this with her Grandson.

So my child is surrounded by damaging adults all trying to use him for there own personal agenda's- what can I do? Move away perhaps?.

My ex lives his life through emotionally blackmailing everyone he comes into contact with and my son has returned from visits with him impersonating this "poor me" sentiment.

He also spends 2 wks a year in the company of my father- as my ex takes him on holiday together with him I know of old what they tend to do is sit around slagging everyone off even their so- called friends!.

Sorry I am sounding a bit poor me now but I really do have my sons best interest at heart and just want to protect him from these immature idiots.

Best of luck with your situation I dont know how your ex can live with herself knowing she is manipulating an innocent little soul because lets face it its not hard to do!

Take care