Access to DD - ADVICE NEEDED

[juliec26]

HI Have recently got divorced after ex H left me for secretary - we have 4 year old dd.. when he first left he gave me no address and wasnt really interest in having dd, in the last year since moving in with his GF he now wants overnight access wednesday every week and then every other week Friday - Monday - firstly I feel totally robbed of being a full-time mum - I became a mother so I could watch my dd grow up and be there for as many minutes of it as possible.. I feel that because my ex H Couldnt be faithful I have to now sacrifice xmas, birthdays and so much more - I have now got a letter from his solicitor saying he is taking me to court for the above access which I feel is far to much for my dd who is only 4 and 1 week to be away from me plus never ever wanted to be part-time mum - any advice on what access he is likely to get would be grateful as i have very little money to defend myself - and fed up with the whole situation thanks in advance x

I know how you feel. Firstly try & avoid using solicitors, it can get very nasty & very, very expensive. Mediation is probably a good idea. My dc were 5 & 20 months when ex left. We were in & out of court for 2 years, mainly sorting finances. A contact order was made, & acces was alternate weekends Friday 5pm -Sunday 5.30pm. One after school tea (4- 6.30pm) 1 half term holiday ie Friday after school until the following Sunday. 2 weeks during the summer hols and alternate Christmas's. When dc go to their dad for Christmas we've agreed they go 2pm Christmas eve until 2pm Boxing Day.

Thanks Brightwell - Have decided to represent myself as luckily my neighbour is a family lawyer and has basically said that is far too much access and he will not get the overnight stay in the week and wont get 3 nights at weekend - just feel like moving country, but then not fair on dd as she deserves to have her dad in her life no matter how much i dislike him - thing is I know its all about control and its just because I won the financial stuff and he now has to get me back

As I understand it there hasn't been much contact and no overnights over at least a year and it's highly improbable that a court will order what he is asking for in the first instance. What is more likely is perhaps a few hours once a fortnight gradually increasing to a full day, then one overnight, a full weekend, long weekend and eventually a week's holiday.

Do not underestimate the importance courts attach to contact. Contact, and reasonable amounts of it, are seen as for the benefit of children in the vast majority of cases. Different arrangements suit different families but once commitment has been shown and contact is well established it isn't at all uncommon for courts to grant contact 50% of the quality time at weekends and during school holidays plus alternate Christmas, Easter and birthdays.

Is there no room for compromise at all? Could you make an offer that is something like what he wants, perhaps through mediation? (Which his sol should definitely have suggested)Really, avoid court. It's not fun and will probably make the situation worse. My ex went through a funny phase after we split and didn't see our DD for months - like yours, didn't seem to want her until he had a settled place for her to visit. I knew DD was hurt and really missed him, so as soon as he expressed an interest I fell over myself to help their relationship heal(although to be fair she was older than your DD) It is worth it in the long run.

You don't suddenly become a part-time Mum because you 'allow' overnight contact to happen, any more than you become part-time when the children go to school. You are still her full-time Mum, just in a different situation.

As you say, your DD has a right to have her father in her life and I'm afraid for that to be meaningful it does mean plenty of contact. I'm very surprised your neighbour thinks this is 'far too much' as it sounds fairly normal to me, assuming you all live reasonably close so that school/nursery runs can be accomodated.

Maybe this is bringing up issues from the divorce that some counselling would help with? It was one of the best things I did.

Why would a family lawyer do such an unprofessional thing?

Try www.wikivorce. Com forums. There are good people there to advise you

"Why would a family lawyer do such an unprofessional thing?"

I'm not sure which lawyer is being referred to. In the case of the Father's solicitor under the solicitors' code of conduct a solicitor is duty bound to represent their client's point of view.

The neighbour who is a solicitor is correct. When courts consider living/contact arrangements they look at the background and generally it's accepted that a child's sense of security and existing bonds should not be disrupted. When one parent works full time and the other doesn't work to fit around child care commitments it would be fairly unusual for a court to award the amount of contact the Father is asking for.

The solicitor will also know how the local courts and court advisory officers view matters - like parents judges and court advisory officers have different attitudes and some, for example, are not in favour of overnight contact on school nights.

There isn't much point to mediation when one party applies for court proceedings. The first hearing is usually conciliation and mediation to see if any agreement can be reached before going in front of the judge.

"Try www.wikivorce. Com forums. There are good people there to advise you "

You are likely to receive similar advice there as given here above.

Looks like we're in the 'minority'. I know exactly how you feel about being a 'part-time' mum! I HATE, HATE, HATE it! I feel robbed too and I'm 5 years down the line and still feel the same (although a little more accepting of the situation at times as we do need a break - but I'm mostly happy with an hour or so in a different room to feel refreshed!) but for the majority of the time I still feel exactly the same way. I didn't bring my dc's into the world to only be with them part-time - just because my xh chose to be with the OW!

Yes, I understand the dc's need to have a relationship with him too, but to me he CHOSE to be a part-time dad - yet I feel I'm being punished for his actions being forced to see less of my children!

The dc's are 8 and 6 and stay every other wknd from fri 5pm till sun 5pm - taken us this long to get to that time only, even though threats of court, court, court for more access, he always has an excuse for taking time off work to have them extra in the holidays when offered the extra time! But hey I'm happy - just can't stand the sh't that goes with it!

I agree with trying to make arrangements outside of court - in my case solicitors and the whole process turned things REALLY nasty and cost a LOT of money, which would have been better spent on the dc's and he continues to threaten me with Court at EVERY opportunity now knowing it's not a pleasant experience!

Go with what access you feel comfortable offering - Start with what you feel is reasonable and build up.

Good luck. It's really difficult and I know how you are feeling but the law says they have to go and we have to put up with seeing less of our dc's! Hope you're stronger than me and get used to it quicker

wiki has more to offer than the lone parents section here....much more.

I agree with ILoveTIFFANY, Wikivorce helped make my separation the best it could be.

This is because it has women and men and experts giving their views from all angles and from their experiences of the court system.

OP feel really bad for you and this must be horrible to deal with. Maybe if you start offering short visits, with an agreement that if DD settles to this and it is working well, then it could be extended later to say every other weekend. I can imagine the thought of not having your DD with you for that long will be awful, but it will benefit her in the long run if it works well

I think it's particularly hard on you as it was your ex who left to be with someone else, and you didn't have any choice. The same happens to many many men and unfortunately in these cases they mostly also loose residence and are stuck with very little contact. I feel for these men as well

Thanks for all your replies helps to know other feel the same as me -He has today told me that I can not see my DD on mothers day as it falls on his weekend - i offered to let him have her a different day, but still says no the thought of my only dd spending mothers day with OW breaks my heart.. but what can i do??... I feel i miss out on so much and although have moved on with my life and have very very lovely partner I just feel angry that he chose to do what he did and I continue to suffer sure in time it will get better well I hope to god it does! x

"wiki has more to offer than the lone parents section here....much more."

As a major contributor to WV from it's very early days I wouldn't disagree but in this particular case the advice is likely to be similar.

juliec26, just because he says you cannot see your D on Mother's Day doesn't mean you won't. Arrangements should work for everyone and you can negotiate an agreement trading Mother's Day for Father's Day perhaps with other time given in lieu. If it goes to court this won't be seen as unreasonable either.

Sorry - I've got a bit confused - what are the current contact arrangements? I've sort of assumed he wasn't seeing her much at all and had suddenly asked for a massive increase in contact.

he sees her wednesday 5-7pm for tea and bath and then every other weekend sat 9am- monday when he drops her at nursery - when he first left he had no address i later found out he was living with gf and didnt want me to know so for 6 months not bothered about seeing her that much - he nevers calls her just sticks to his days

Right - so he's not actually asking for a sudden huge amount of contact, just to extend the hours he has with her. TBH it doesn't sound unreasonable, specially the full weekend one. And as he already drops her at Nursery on Mondays, it would be hard to argue that it would be massively disruptive for him to do it on Thursday, too.

I know that doesn't make it easier to cope with it but at least he wants to be involved - I have a friend who would give her right arm for her son's Dad to be that interested. I can't see that there would be a lot of grounds for the court to deny him more contact if it went that far.

Thing is Julie & Talie, I doubt any of us here started out thinking "I think I'll have a child and raise them as a single parent". However we ended up as lone parents, the fact is that we are.

So now you are in this situation, you need to accept your life as it is and move on. The fact your ex did this or that is rather irrelevent. Its in the past.

I remember those early days. I was consumed with bitterness. I HATED the fact my ex chose to leave the kids with me. Life wasn't supposed to be that way. When parents split, kids are supposed to be with their mum and I am supposed to see them weekends. How was I supposed to work, look after the kids and find someone new!?!?!

Thing is, eventually I realised that the only person who is truly responsible for my life is me. Blaming my ex was convenient absolutely useless. Would it help pay the bills? No. Would it help arrange a childminder? No. Would blaming her help me cook dinner? Nope! So why bother? So I learned to let go and accepted my lot. Eight years on I look back and it was the best thing which ever happened to me.

Being happy is the best revenge if there is one. Years on, the ex would love more involvement but the kids are settled now and its a case of too little, too late.

In my access agreement, exH gets to se them every other weekend, Friday to Sunday. This is called 'ordinary weekend schedule'.

Mothers day they spend with me, Fathers day they spend with him. My birthday they are with me, his b-day they are with him if he wants. These are 'special days'.

We each get to have a period of 12 days in the summer with them and can take them for a break anywhere in the country, or out of the country with advance notice. We alternate years for first choice of when the 12 days will be taken. This is 'vacation time'.

We alternate Easter -- he gets them one year from Holy Thurs to Easter Sun p.m. and I get them the next year. I insisted on always having them for Christmas so he gets Christmas eve (morning to late evening) and also New Years eve. These religious and calendar holidays are called 'holidays'.

They spend half the school Christmas break with me and half with him.

For 'holidays' and 'special days', the 'weekend schedule' is put on hold, same goes for 'special days'. The summer 'vacation' time is not allowed to run over the other parent's weekend, hence 12 days. Other school breaks I have the children.

In addition, there are provisions for going to family funerals, weddings and other significant celebrations. He and I are both obliged to ask each other first if any babysitting of the children is necessary -- if I am going to be out for 3 or more hours I have to ask him to take care of them and vice versa while they are with him. For their birthdays, there is a provision that the other parent will be invited and welcomed to celebrate on the b-day at whatever residence the child is in at the time. In the case of parties held for the child outside the home, the parent who doesn't have the children at the time is invited and made welcome there too.

The DCs don't go to see their father on week nights, but he is allowed to call them any time and talk. He hardly ever does.

If you break the occasions down into categories, you might be able to come up with a compromise that looks reasonable and that causes the least possible disruption to the child's sense of belonging somewhere.

Spending half the Christmas break with me usually means about 8 days with each, and is calculated from the last day of school to the eve of returning to school, without taking Christmas eve, Christmas day or New Years into the reckoning, so he actually gets one day more with them over Christmas than I do, but I figured it was worth it to have them wake up in their own beds on Christmas morning.

It is so very hard to see the crater your ex left in your children's lives and then find yourself faced with demands about visitation. Some people have absolutely no shame, and it's such a pity that courts don't punish people who destroy their innocent children's lives, giving them not a thought while they're off philandering, yet back for what's theirs when they feel like playing fond father again. I know where you're coming from JulieC26. It stinks.

Thanks to all I finally have realised I actually am not a part-time mum and that I am to make the most of the time me and my daughter have and to get on with my life its best to just be happy with the access I have - He has agreed to Mothers Day as Father day fell on my weekend and obviously he wants to see DD so agreed ok for me to have DD - I am not bitter about him leaving as best thing that ever happened, but just wanted to say thanks for making me see things differently and learn is ok to let go as I am full-time mum in my heart and thats all that matters xx

Well done you - it is hard and sometimes little things (like the mother's day thing) can just feel like the last straw. But it is much better for the kids to see that Mum and Dad can get on OK and that there isn't a huge fight over them eg court etc.

When my H walked out with no warning a week after DD was 2, my coping strategy was to get ultra orgainised. So when he came to see DD 3 days later I already had all the paperwork for the bank accounts ready to put all cash in my name. I felt vulnerable and needed to know the mortgage would be paid. He signed. I was lucky, ex has a hatred of confrontation, and had no idea how much cash was in different places.
When it came to access he wanted every other weekend but as he lives 3 hours away (I moved back to mums as I got made redundant 2 months later!!) I said that was too much and we agreed on every third weekend and one night a week, although he ofen doesn't take that up. He also has her one week in the summer and 1 week over new year. He has an office close by so is in the area regulalrly. I am afraid I told him there and then that as far as I was concerned birthdays and Xmas were family occassions and he had chosen not to be part of our family so she would spend those days with me. Again was lucky.... as he had never really wanted her I don't think he was that bothered when she was small. By now she is just turning 9 and even when I have suggested she might like to spend her b-day with him, the look of horror on her face is an immense relief.
She loves her dad but her "home" is here.

I hold on tight to the fact that remaining civil with ex is important for DD's benefit. I don't like having to deal with him but we all do it because we know its right....