obligation to agree other contact outside court order?

[cestlavielife]

exP was in depressed mode before xmas, didnt amke some contact sessions etc. we now have a reduced contact schedule - "standard" wednesday eveing and alternate weekend daytime plus "any other contact as agreed by both parties".
but if i dont agree i dont ahve to add other right? in fact he has had a couple extra sessions since january for various reasons. i ahve been flexible..

now he is in "up " mood and pushing, pushing "i want to see the children every day" "i deserve it they deserve it". "i want to see them every day in half term". and "stop punishing me and them" (the latter really gets me!)

they will be in holiday playscheme inhalf term, they will see him this weekend and on weds evening as usual.

i have no obligation to organize more do i?

i have spoken with dcs and eldest dd in particular is far from enamoured with any idea of extra contact. she goes along with what is set in stone - but does not wish for more. he has also started promising her things again - puppies, pets - and she knows from experience is all talk... she does not trust him and neither do i...apart from fact is not up to him whether i have a puppy (or any pet) in my house!! i did say he could get one if he wanted to have it in his place...

given his poor mental health pre-xmas (v depressed, neighbours and carers taking dcs to see him spoke with me wondering if he would kill himself...) i would like to see several months of "good" mood before increasing and adding in more contact.

he can stamp all he likes right, but so long as i follow court order schedule i am complying?

I think the phrase that pays is 'as agreed by both parties'. He has every right to suggest extra contact but, if you don't agree, then that's as far as it goes. No obligation whatsoever.

thanks -

he wants to discuss with a third party (not sure who she is someone from his church - i have agreed to meet to discuss financial matters but not chidren for now - i have said "wait for a few months for current arrangements to settle then I am hapy to review"...given his poor mental health state pre-xmas.

anyway his tone is "I want to discuss these matters to outside court. Your views "wishes and feelings" get being imposed and forced above and
beyond everyone.
No consideration for the benefit of the children, or abuse you are
inflicting, just you"

"please do not punish our children or myself "

"there has been sufficient time so what you are imposing is detrimental
for them and is an abuse for them and myself (something you do not see,
obviously)"

"I am okay to "share parenting", which is far different from what you
are imposing and forcing and the so call co-parenting"

"since first court order contact up to
now there has been sufficient time and no reason for you to put your foot
on the break and slow down. Haven't you broken enough things?"

it is v hard not to respond in kind but i just keep reiterating "i am happy to review in two to three months time when there has been consistency with the current contact arrangements".

judge agreed the reduced schedule because pre xmas he didnt turn up, turned up late, refused to cook for them as was "too ill" etc.etc. this is all saved in the separate mobile phone on his text msgs. dcs were totally confused "are we seeing him tonite or not?" "i dont know we have to wait to see if he calls/texts" - then we would get told just before the time to go -"i am too low i cant make it".

he really doesnt see that he has to prove himself to the dcs first .... with the curent schedule.

why are you agreeing to meet with someone from his church? there is no point....no new agreement will be reached.

i would leave it all to cafcass/judge..

i agree with you ILT - you are aboslutely right. i dont think it will achieve anything.

i have asked what eh proposes re financial issues - i have laid my cards on table - i want to sell the joint owned flats - all he says is "I'll discuss this and other matters at meetings, tks"

if it was a trained mediator - surely both parties have to put out there what their proposals are first?

it feels more like he wants to have the control, keep me guessing... and the ironic thing is i am not seeking money from him other than what will get from sale of joint owned property where he is living. while i am renting at great expense. tho of course he stands to have to mov out if he cannot buy me out.

i was trying to appear willing to talk on financial matters but if she is not trained mediator then i do not think it will get anywhere; and he will try to turn it around to "poor me".

i become the nasty one for refusing to engage with him? falling into the manipulated trap.... but really, his tone is not conciliatory or recognition of anything being his responsibility -

his description of the hell he put us through he says was "untreated low mood".
thing is when he was on anti Ds was when he was also aggreessive and violent. but there is no point spelling that out. he will always have an excuse whether it my fault or his "depression" or whatever.

i think you right tho - i just need to
re-disengage and follow thru with courts on financial matters; and just stick to the court order for contact as it is, at least for a few months.

grr just ranting really - he is trying to suck me into his power games and i need to step back and disengage.

its so empowering to disengage....i changed everything...email address,phone number.deleted from as much as i could do.

i would leave everything to the legal teams....a meeting with third person would just give him a chance to have a go further

honestly,i'd just not speak or communicate at all...

I agree with the above. Your ex husband seems to be quite the master of the emotional arm-twisting... many people with addiction & mental health issues are. The less you communicate, the more you ignore him, the less influence he can exert.

I don't think third parties are at all appropriate... whoever he selects he will have spent a long time manipulating around to his point of view and it will end up as two on one. The court is the much more impartial arbiter and that's how it should stay for the foreseeable future.

tks. yesterday he manipulated/charmed his way into MY house (my rented house, my lease)to meet the carer and my ds (i had agreed they could meet elsewhere for extra contact, to be arranged with her); he knows full well i do not allow him into my house since 2008. (it would be lovely to be able to trust one's ex and have nice coffeee chats at table on handovers - but it just isnt the case here)

carer is new and while i had explained situation i clearly hadnt made it clear re: my house.

he apparently sat at MY computer for an hour (hence contact with child was absolutely secondary to his mission) ... (this is someone who if you let them at your computer they start rearranging it, cleaning your desktop, etcetc.. nothing obvious changed but ugh.

he has no rights is my lease only.

i have made it clear to all carers that he is not allowed in under any circumstances.
(he has tried before "i need the toilet" etc.)

i did text to say that he was not to come into my house again - he sent loads of text msgs back about how extreme and paranoid i was etc - all of which i ignored - including one claiming "it was snowing".

Take it up with the carer who let him in!!

i have made it clear, she now knows. she si fine about it.

i really did not think / imagine he would have the cheek to ask to come in when i wasnt there.

or ratehr i should ahve suspected he would try to get in when i wasnt there...

Hope you keep a record of these incident because in future court hearings they're going to be important. Using your computer could be interpreted as rather sinister. I don't know if you can block texts from particular numbers but you should also keep note of those. Entering your home without your consent or knowledge is not acceptable.

you have the power to stop this ridiculous game, He is tying you up in nots and you are allowing it. sorry to be harsh, but you are in a right old state, I can sense that from the way you are writing.

Say 'no'. Tell him you are satisfied with the contact as it stands, and the kids are too.

End of.

As chil says, keep a record of everything and do not waster you time talking to anyone else - If he wants more contact, let him go to the court and get it sorted. If he is a bit unstable then minimising contact is probably better and if the children are not knocking the door down then stick to your guns. This is just emotional blackmail, do not indulge him.