Should I 'back down' for DD's sake? How else can I help her?

[QueenOfFlamingEverything]

I stopped contact between DD(6) and her dad last year after a lot of thought and some very good advice on MN. Basically, XP has mental health issues that have become severe over the last 18m or so, with several 'incidents' occurring that have caused him to narrowly escape being sectioned on at least two occasions. He refuses to seek treatment, and to talk to me at all about how he is and arrangements for seeing DD. He has 2 other DC with different mothers who he is no longer allowed to see either. He lives with his parents who are in complete denial, think the sun shines out of his arse, say there is nothing wrong with him, and basically allow him to maintain a pretence that all is fine.

Old threads on this (under my old name) if anyone wants more background are here and here.

This was never intended to be a permanent measure - I wanted to protect DD, and hoped that it would make XP face up to the situation and start to deal with his issues and communicate with me. No such luck. Have heard nothing from him since, though DD speaks to him on the phone once a week and his parents visit her here every couple of months for the day.

I have no idea how he is, or if he is being treated, or what is actually wrong with him, or anything. His parents cannot be trusted to tell me the truth. So I still don't feel I can send DD to stay with them, and he refuses to visit her in my home or to make any arrangements for a contact centre or similar.

But DD is struggling with not seeing him, and it is getting worse not better. She talks every day about how much she misses him, there are genuine tears most days too. She gets angry with me for 'not letting her see him' (I think he/his parents encourage that tbh) and gets very withdrawn sometimes too. She is completely inconsolable - says 'the only thing that would help is to see daddy again'. I cannot bear it tbh, to see my beautiful precious child sat curled up in the corner weeping and refusing to be comforted. I don't know how to help her.

I tell her that daddy loves her but that at the moment he is ill, and that when he phones up to talk to me we can arrange for her to see him again. She can phone him when she wants but she only usually does so at the weekend - she says it makes it worse afterwards.

Her distress is such that, despite everything, I am actually at the point of considering letting her visit again. But I worry it is not a safe environment, and feel so strongly that he needs to want that to happen too - which I can only assume from his actions, or rather his complete lack of action, that he doesn't.

I am so torn

That's so difficult! Is there any halfway measure, like having them meet in a local McDonalds for an hour, while you lurk in the coffee shop next door?

Nope - he lives 100 miles away now as I made the decision to move close to my family after he left us.

He will not go to any effort at all to see her. Basically he will only see DD if she is 'presented' to him at a place of his convenience.

But she doesn't understand that - how could she? And so she adores and idolises him, and misses him so desperately.

I would tell her that of course she can invite him to visit her. And when she says can you take me to see him say that it is up to him to come here because you are really busy with work/whatever but remain positive that he can come and visit her any time.

I'm not sure what I've said is good advice or whether i can put it well but it seems that you need to shift the focus from you preventing contact/doing something wrong to him not able to see her.

When he doesn't come you can say that you're sure he's sorry and that he will come when he's better.

Ouch. Painful situation.

If he lives with his parents, and they will be present while your ds is there, how much at risk will she be? Can you talk to them about it and ensure they will stay around while she's there? Could you go with her?

I appreciate neither of these options are ideal, but it sounds like whatever you may think of her dad, your ds loves him and needs to see him. Evetually she will make up her own mind about how good a dad he is.

For what it's worth, I have a similar situation where ds's dad is a complete arse, but ds loves him. I just hope he sees the light one day.

she is idealising something that isnt real though - if i am reading correctly, then from what you have said, the contact has been very minimal - not someone around all the time at all and really only when you facilitated it.

curious as to why she has such a fantasy about her daddy?

i dont think you should compromise her safety tho by trying to get more visitation -after all if he is a) unwell and b) has poor track record in making effort then you will only be setting her up for even more disappointment.

maybe some serious talking about how he is unwell - has she seen/witnessed anything at all you could use as a reference point to see if she understands how unwell he can be?

in any case - he should be making the effort - you ahve valid reasons to not allow contact, let hi take it further eg to court adn apply for visitng rights. if he does not do so - why are you setting it all up? it will then fail again at some point.

my youngest was five when my exP had his violent psychiatric episode - for a long time she said she didnt want to see him, was scared of him (he waent aborad his home country). then she idealised him, wanted him back, was so happy when he returned (he manipulated into staying in family home) - then he became abusive towards me and more scary times so she was glad when we moved away. she has said many times we should all live together, talks about mummy and daddy kissing an getting married etc.

while the older dd is pretty clear about not seeing him etc.

so - in roundabout way- i think six year old girls do idolise/idealise their daddy. she loves him - but what does she love? he sint there day to day is he? he has been erratic and sparse in visits... she is chasing a fantasy daddy....

of course she has rights to see him but it has to be safe, dont be drawn into thinking if you let her see him more it will solve her upsets, it might be a ) not safe and b) might in long term cause more upset given his record... you know that you are not stoppping contact, he is just unwilling to make the extra effort or abide by rules - my ex chose to not see his dcs for a few months because he refused to accept sharing costs with me for contact centre - so he worked to get CAFCASS to pay - which they did but had he raised the money at once he would not ahve had to wait for three months to see them - none of it makes sense. it was about pwoer games with me....

i would actually see if there was access to child psychologists in your local area - ask GP. a good family therapist who works with children eg play therapist might eb abel to talk and draw out what it reality about what she wants and realistically achieveable adn what is fantasy..and maybe help you come p with strategies.

in my case it ahs been fairly easy to jsut keep aying "it isnt possible for mumy and daddy to live together" - and i have back up if you like from her big sister who understands it all so much more...but i can see the six, seven year old who fantasises about a happy mummy-daddy family....

it is hard. but you need to be realsitic and put safety and reality above what seems to be an easy solution ie set up and enable the contact so you are doing it it, or take risks...

we cant protect them from how their otehr parent actually is, we need to try and help them separate reality from fantasy...and that might need professional inppuit from someone like a family therapist

i totally understand the heartbreak at seeing her cry over him " 'the only thing that would help is to see daddy again'" - but maybe getting to the bottom of how/why she is thinking this might help? you know that "seeing daddy again" is not going to solve her worries/concerns - he is always going to be someone who is not - by his track record - going to be consistently in her life and that is something she/you have to accept. ...

if he has another major episode and is secitoned - how will you support her then? is she believes that he is something he is not - it is very difficult for sure. but it is not as simple as "she loves her daddy and should see him" - when dady is someone who lets people down (his track record) and has untreated(?) mental health isues.

is also hard to explain "ill" when it is mental health/more than "he has flu" i think.

see if you can get GP referral to family counsellor/family therapist/child psychologist for advice and strtegies.

in meantime let him seek court order/get cafcass involved etc..

sorry typos is late... i have a friend whose ex is an arse - left her for another woman - but he does not have the history of aggressive, violent issues my ex has. and her ex sees the dcs regularly and yes they argue over contact etc - but there is a big difference in dealing with a parent who has been/is annoying and a pain - but who is capable and able to care for their dcs at all times - and one who - like op's ex and my ex - have demonstrated significant mental health issues during which times they have literally been unable to care for anyone ie themselves - let alone their own child - and/or have poor track record in pursuing contact themselves (will only do it on their terms espite good reason for concerns)

op's ex is "not allowed" to see two of his children - there have to be good reasons for that. is not just a serial philanderer