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Getting non-mol / injunction on xp + residency order?

19 replies

makkapakkamoo · 27/12/2009 22:29

I am going to my solicitor in January (Xmas hols have delayed appointment) and my aim is primarily to obtain a non-molestation order, or injunction as is better known.

I am trying to do a bit of preparation first, as I want to go to Court like, yesterday! asap after my appointment. Do I need actual examples of xp's EA? I don't know how much detail I need to go into. He was EA about 100x every single day, calling me names, timing me doing school run, withholding money, etc. There are incidents that have happened (e.g. the assault) and I know the actual dates of these, but how much of the rest do I need? Do I just say that he called me names etc several times a day, with examples of the names he used, or do I need more?

Also, I understand that although he is not on Birth Cert, if he should apply for PR it is usually awarded. Do I apply for residency at the same time as non-mol or wait to see if he does apply?

Any advice much appreciated xox

OP posts:
makkapakkamoo · 27/12/2009 23:12

that'll teach me for not previewing

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SolidGoldpiginablanket · 27/12/2009 23:14

I don't know enough about this but it might be helpful to ring Women's Aid or have a look on their website.
Well done for getting rid of the knobber BTW.

Snorbs · 27/12/2009 23:29

Rights of Women may be worth a look, too. There are details of their support line on the website. Good luck!

Spero · 27/12/2009 23:52

You need as much detail as possible while at the same time, not wasting time with more trivial stuff.

A common problem I see in the courts is that matters drag on and two or even three statements end up getting filed, with different allegations in each. The explanation is usually 'I forgot to include this the first time' but that usually shoots your credibility to pieces.

If I were drafting your statement, I would want as much detail as possible about the most serious incidents i.e. incidents where he physically hurt you or threatened to physically hurt you. Do you have witnesses? Do you have police or medical evidence?

I see a lot of statements where it says something along the lines of 'In March he shouted at me and threatened to hit me'. This is pretty useless. You want 'on 22nd March at about 10.30pm he called me a bitch and hit me on the arm' etc, etc. My neighbour heard him shouting.

Emotional abuse is more tricky as it is less immediately obvious that this qualifies for an injunction, unless it is pretty repetitious which yours sounds like it is. Same advice applies, get as much detail in as you can as you look bad if you end up adding more detail in subsequent statements.

If the court decides that it will need to hear evidence from both of you to decide what to do, you will be asked to produce a schedule of your allegations and these will need to be in a form that he can respond to, therefore general, vague allegations, or too many allegations where you don't have any other proof may not be very helpful to you.

Good luck.

Spero · 27/12/2009 23:55

About residence orders and PR, most fathers will get PR if they can show they have a relationship with the child, are committed to the child and it would be in the child's best interests. It is usually considered in the child's best interests to have a dad with PR but remember that if he is found to have physically or emotionally abused you, that obviously is an argument against PR.

To ask the court to make orders re PR and residence will require an application under the Children Act and it is probably best to deal with it all in one go as the facts supporting your app for injunction and a residence order will probably overlap.

makkapakkamoo · 28/12/2009 00:12

We have been split up approx 5 weeks. Since then, he has assaulted me when collecting dc (in front of them), and told them, "c'mon, lets get you away from this fucking slag" - all included in police witness statement.

on last access visit he refused my request that he remain outside of my home (my sole tenancy) and just walked past me into my lounge. he took dc for overnight visit (i thought he was taking them to his mum's) and called SS to say I'd given him dc and he was homeless with them. They have now banned overnight visits or visits over mealtimes.

Prior to the split, he has climbed in through an open window when I refused to let him back in after a previous assault. I was on the phone to the police at the time but never went through with that one, and I can't remember the date, or the dates of around 6 more times that i have had to call 999 when he was being abusive in the last year. I can remember one time in Feb when police attended, but we were living in a joint tenancy back then and they could only keep him away briefly to prevent a breach of the peace.

would it be a good idea to call SW and ask if she will support these applications? i DO want supervised contact as he is telling my relatives (who have kindly done some of the handovers) that my dc are telling him i am having men back here amongst other accusations. (they are 2 & 3yo)

Also, he is only biological father of my youngest, we met when ds was a few months old. do all PR issues only apply to his dd?

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makkapakkamoo · 28/12/2009 00:16

oh, and since i kicked him out, there have been 2 other police call-outs when he has stolen property of mine when collecting dc, and another for harassment (36 phone-calls in 3 hours at it's peak!)

he has made several threats including what he would do to me if i started another relationship, have no idea how to prove these...

he has had previous non-mol from his ex-wife, conviction for battery on another xp, and harassment for another xp!!! do these get taken into account?

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Spero · 28/12/2009 00:21

I think you will get your injunction, no problem!

He can only get PR for his biological child.

Sounds as if you should apply for residence and offer only supervised contact. Make it clear in your application which social services team have been involved so court can order them to do the section 7 report, which will inform the court about what is in child's best interests.

Police will keep records of all call outs so you could say in your statement that you cannot recall the precise time and date but you will find out from the CRIS (Crime Report Information System) reports.

You should be able to get an injuction without notice to him if you are frightened about how he will react. The court will then list it for another hearing in a few weeks time to give him a chance to respond but a lot of men don't bother, so you end up with an injunction without hearing any evidence.

Spero · 28/12/2009 00:24

Best of luck, I'm off to bed now. I hope you manage to get it sorted out and once you've got the injuction, don't ever, ever weaken and let him in, invite him over etc. This will make it difficult for you to enforce the injunction in the future.

People like this need help to stop behaving in violent and abusive ways. Mostly I think they don't ever 'get better' because they rarely acknowledge that they need to change.

Unless and until he does change, keep him out of your life as much as possible.

makkapakkamoo · 28/12/2009 00:49

Thank you spero, you have been a great help! I know that most of this is my solicitor's job, but like i said, i am just trying to catch-up on some of the time i have lost waiting for an appointment. You'll be pleased to know that SW has already told me that if I ever have him back, dc will be removed. Therefore, my hand is forced and the responsibility of the decision is no longer mine to bear. This helps me tremendoulsly when I am weak!

iirc, a 'without notice' order is to be applied for within 2 weeks of a specific incident e.g. the assault? i tried to do this back in feb but dropped it at the last minute because my then solicitor didnt think we would get it 'without notcie' and then he would have been able to live in our old home with me and dc during notice period! was too frightened to continue then, but i have worked on getting my own place since then..

i wonder if it would help if i tell them about being in the car with him when he drove by his ex-w's house to see what car she had, whilst her non-mol was in effect (he wasn't allowed within 100m of her home). he DID turn up to that hearing (i was already pg with dd by then, and completely under his spell).

over the last year, I have become just as scheming and devious as him just to work towards this point. it's not going to waste now.

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Spero · 28/12/2009 19:49

yes good point, without notice applications are usually only granted if you can show that something recent has happened; they are only justified if you need an order urgently and you are afraid that by applying for one and letting him know, this will put you at risk. there isn't any specific period but I think two weeks sounds a reasonable cut off point.

If SW are saying your children will be removed if you get back with him, they should also be advising that you apply for the non mol and they should help you get it.

AboardtheAxiom · 28/12/2009 20:54

no legal knowledge I'm afraid but just wanted to wish you good luck with this makkapakka

makkapakkamoo · 29/12/2009 02:09

Thanks Spero and ATA. It's frustrating waiting for all the right Offices to re-open, but being practical is helping me stay focussed on just how unacceptable his behaviour has been (imo), and pass the time until next week.

SW said to call her after Solicitor, but I will try her this week, as she has some important dates on file wrt police call-outs from earlier in the year. It may be quicker to get them this way.

Spero, do you know how I would obtain the CRIS? I am not sure if I do this (thinking of speeding-up the process) or if the solicitor needs to do this?

Ex-w's non-mol was issued (just) before the automatic powers of arrest were attatched, but had them none-the-less. (I know they are auto now) The statement (i saw it several months after) never claimed any physical violence, it was based on verbal abuse and harassment. They also had no dc together. Would this impact on whether I have to face him at Court?

I didn't realise that the 2-week rule was not fixed. I realised with hindsight that the solicitor I was using for the 1st Injunction attempt probably gave me some poor advice about not being able to get an Emergency order, as 3 days prior he smashed up the inside of our car whilst i was in it. She was the one who told me about the 2 week rule thing. Should I also apply for a copy of my file from her as it has actual dates of incidents that are hazy in my memory now?

Sorry for so many questions xox

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makkapakkamoo · 29/12/2009 15:32

Hi Spero/ATA

I finally received my phonecall from the police today....

he HAS been arrested and is on bail for 3 more weeks. I am not sure about typing the date for risk of identification (maybe i should namechange soon..)

I am really hoping we can get this Order before it expires, as he is denying all charges so it will probably come down to my word against his. Don't know if I would want it to go to trial as then I'd have to testify [scary emoticon pls?]

Am I right in thinking that if he is not charged i can still use this incident for the Order as it's Civil? -- desperately hoping...

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AboardtheAxiom · 29/12/2009 16:12

Thought he must have been makkapakka, wouldn't have been able to resist phoning you under any other conditions IMO. Of course he is denying all charges, he would wouldn't he! If you need to go to trial do it, he has already assaulted you with your dcs looking on - he can't get any bloody worse can he!! He has previous for doing this, so if you did go to trial they could see on his record what kind of a character he is, and that a mum o her own with two young dcs wouldn't waste time stood in court if they didn't have to.

Have you been in touch with your local women's aid? In my area there is an organisation that do free security on your home, any family here can apply to them and they also do DV packs so your local WA may know of something similar in your area. Do you have a surestart centre nearby? They are often very supportive too.

I am name changing for the new year as lots of identifiable info about me on my long running thread. When I do I will email you my new name.

makkapakkamoo · 30/12/2009 00:55

Just looked up some stuff about this order on the Rights of Women website and it says this:

"A non-molestation order can protect a
woman and any relevant child from
violence or harassment. A woman can
obtain a non-molestation order against
someone who has not been physically
violent but has been harassing,
intimidating or pestering her."

I'm now confused if this means I cannot get this order as he HAS been physically violent to me..?

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kate1956 · 30/12/2009 09:53

It just means that it doesn't HAVE to be physical violence - not that you can't get one with physical violence. HTH best of luck

Spero · 30/12/2009 13:24

Kate is right - physical violence is the most obvious sign that you need a non mol, but it covers any harrassement or intimidation which can be verbal or even just driving up and down outside your house, for eg if that is done frequently at odd hours.

Its difficult to be very prescriptive, as every case depends on its facts. For eg if you were a vulnerable person, the court might find you were being harrassed by behaviour that other people might not particularly care about.

Its a mixture of objective and subjective.

You should be able to get a copy of your papers from your solicitors.

Usually the court will order the police to provide evidence of call outs etc. There is a new procedure where the solicitors are supposed to write first requesting it and only if the police don't co-operate will there be an order. They are usually pretty good but it can take a month or so to get the evidence.

If he has been arrested this is pretty good evidence that the police thought it was serious enough at the time to justify taking some action.

I would be amazed if you don't get your injuction. Best of luck and I hope you have a Happy New Year

makkapakkamoo · 30/12/2009 18:12

Phew! I had a panic that it meant I wouldn't be eligible. Thank you so much for all of your help, it has reassured me immensely xox

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