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Lone parents

Use our Single Parent forum to speak to other parents raising a child alone.

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Original poster

37 weeks pg, and father has just announced he wants to be on the birth certificate.

92 replies

maledetta · 27/12/2009 19:47

The baby's father and I are not together, but recently have been spending more time together, and he has made it clear that he does genuinely want to be involved with his child. Yesterday he said he wants to come to the registry office with us when the baby is born, and have his name on the birth certificate.

As he is being quite helpful and decent at the moment, I think I owe it to him if that's what he wants...It's just that I have a huge distrust of authority, and am worried that, if there is a named father, the CSA will find a way to shaft us both.

His income is v. erratic; he's in a lot of debt, and TBH I didn't expect to receive any financial help at all, just hoping for some practical help and maybe some childcare. Now he's offering me some kind of official monthly minimum via standing order (basically the maximum allowed before they start stopping it out of my benefits).

I am worried, however, that as his income fluctuates, or if he falls off the mythical bit of scaffolding, the CSA might try to hold him to a commitment he can't honour, and my benefits could be docked or something.

Do you think my concerns are justified? Also, what rights would he have as "officially" being the father?

OP posts:

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LastOfTheMulledWine · 29/12/2009 00:03

The bc is a statement of fact and should be treated as such unless there are very good reasons for omitting information.

Worrying about meeting benefits thresholds is not a good reason.

CirrhosisByTheSea · 29/12/2009 00:30

For your child's sense of identity the father's name needs to be on the certificate. What he is like as a person has no bearing. This is a legal document stating where and who this child has come from and to deny the child that would be doing a bad thing.

clam · 29/12/2009 11:30

Good point, Cirrhosis. Since when did the birth certificate become a matter of choice as to what you put down? As you say, it is (or should be) a statement of fact, and not down to whether the mother still likes the bloke who fathered her child.

jasmeeen · 29/12/2009 11:41

I agree with the points made by northern and clam.

I can't believe that you are considering not putting his name on the birth certificate because of benefits and a whole load of "what ifs". Yes he might turn out to be a waster, you might also turn out to be not that great at parenting. But at least give it a chance.

MaggieMnaSneachta · 29/12/2009 12:00

northern, you can't make another person be fair.

no piece of paper will ever prevent him from being a good father.

it might however give him the power to call shots from above, like a puppet master.

I would have agreed with your post ONCE UPON A TIME btw.

Now I know that you can only be a decent fair person yourself. You can't make anybody else be decent and reasonable. I think my childhood full of responsible decent easy going men (fahter brothers cousins etc) made me quite naive.

FabHasHadALovelyXmas · 29/12/2009 12:45

It should all be about the child and the mother has no right to say the father can't be on the birth certificate.

MadameCastafiore · 29/12/2009 12:50

What gives you the right to not allow the father to be on the birth certificate if he wants to be?

Sounds like this is about money and not having your benefits stopped - when you should be if he is paying you.

Look on here and there are hundreds of women wanting fathers to be involved and pay for their children ana here you are whining about it!!!!!!

Northernlebkuchen · 29/12/2009 13:00

Maggie - I do agree that you can only make yourself act properly and it's exactly for that reason that I think the op has no grounds to refuse the father's name on the birth certificate. It's not right to do that. What he then does with his position as father is up to him but he is the father. His position will be recognised by courts, by family, by blood tests - so why on earth would she want to start off the parenting journey by unfairly refusing to name him on the birth certificate and thus starting the whole thing off in an atmosphere of distrust and disappointment?

christmaseve · 29/12/2009 13:10

Someone asked since when was it a choice to put the fathers name on a BC. Well it still is a choice for the fathers. They have the choice to go to the registry office or not.

MaggieMnaSneachta · 29/12/2009 13:13

9 times out of ten, what you say is correct. and most of the time a theoretical 'what is right?' is a good guide. but in practise, a lot of mothers who aren't in relationships with the child's father end up being at the mercy of the whims of a control freak.

the absolute bottom line is that if the man wants to be a good father then what's written on a piece of paper won't affect his parenting.

However, when the mother and father aren't together, and the woman is basically when the chips are down on her own (ie, ultimately ALL the responsibility) falls to her, then I think the father needs to show in advance that he's worthy of being given PR.

It is extremely foolish and naive to handover rights to a near stranger just because you have conceived a child with him. He could be an abuser, a bully, or just a common or garden bully.

He could be a very decent man and a good father and if he is, then your caution and prudence won't affect that at ALL.

FabHasHadALovelyXmas · 29/12/2009 13:13

Yes, but the op seems to only want to leave him off so she can get more money.

thesecondcoming · 29/12/2009 13:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

christmaseve · 29/12/2009 13:20

Also there is an option to have his name added by re-registering the birth later.

We did this when DD was 11, not because he was a good father to her but because she knew him and wanted his name on her BC when we had to get a full copy for her own passport.

LastOfTheMulledWine · 29/12/2009 13:21

I might be a bad mother, who knows? Perhaps I should have left myself off the birth certificate just in case? Why should a father 'handover rights to a near stranger just because he's conceived a child with her. She could be an abuser, a bully' etc etc.

It's a register. A simple statement of known information.

MaggieMnaSneachta · 29/12/2009 13:24

no you are twisting things fab.

she has a fear of having nothing if the csa cock things up.

there is a huge difference between greed (trying to eke a few extra bob or milk the benefit system) and the very real and legitimate fear of not actually having any money.

my lone parent benefit payment goes into the bank on a thursday and sometimes we don't leave the house on wednesday as I've no money!!!!

I would love to be able to tell my children that Daddy contributed to their wellbeing. But he doesn't. He hasn't. He won't. The end. I can't turn myself inside out hoping, begging, jumping through hoops.

The government gives me a little bit of money and I dont' need to jump through hoops.

although, my situation is different. he is named on the bc and I just told the irish authorities that he's in england and if they could extract any money out of him then I would applaud them because i had failed.

I'm not a man-hater. I think i was unlucky. I think due to random arbitrary bad luck, i picked a wrong 'un. But it's changed by default setting from "cruise through life trusting everybody and expecting the best from everybody" to a more realistic, "expect the best, but protect yourself just in case".

Now, whatever happens, the children will be ok, the house will be heated and they'll have milk food etc.... I would honestly HATE to think what would have happened to us if I was waiting for money from their dad.

christmaseve · 29/12/2009 13:25

To the OP, you are going to have a lovely baby very soon. If he wants to be supportive he should not be pressurising you atm. There is the option of adding him later when he has prooved himself to be supportive of you and your child.

Congratulations in advance.

ChocHobNob · 29/12/2009 13:28

The Mother could be any one of those things, an abuser or a bully, but she gets to put her name on the child's birth certificate because she is the child's mother.

The Mother might walk away from that child in days, weeks, years to come just as much as a father might. It happens.

You shouldn't use the pretense that all men could turn out to be control freaks so better not give them any rights, just in case, IMO.

But in the OP's defence, she did not post saying she wanted to keep the father's name off of the certificate to claim as much money as she wanted (not that I remember reading anyway). She is correct in her fears that if a man is named on a birth certificate, in the past, the CSA have been able to chase him and demand money off of him that he cannot afford. That is one of the points she said she didn't want. For the CSA to cause hostility if she's forced to go through them as she's on benefits ... but she wont be.

Then she went on to comment on how she doesn't want to be tied to a man she hasn't built trust up with yet ... but it's a bit late for that. You have a child together.

Northernlebkuchen · 29/12/2009 13:50

Maggie - I'm very uncomfortable with the idea that the mother may be assumed to be a jolly good parent come what may but the father has to 'prove' himself. Yes, some women have babies with vile and abusive men but the op hasn't suggested this is the case here. Her concerns centred around the financial aspects and around whether his name on the BC would prevent her from doing whatever she liked in the future. I'm very troubled by this thread because this child has TWO parents. To operate from a point of view that the man will automatically fuck things up is very, very unfair. We would all be dismayed if the father were posting saying he wanted to diminish the mother's legal standing lest she turn out to be rubbish wouldn't we? I know many people on here have had bad experiences but we shouldn't let that colour what is right - and what is right is that these people are having a baby together and they both need to recognise their mutual importance to that child.

FabHasHadALovelyXmas · 29/12/2009 13:55

I am not twisting things Maggie.

Whatever the csa did there is nothing stopping the father paying what he wanted for his child. The op was all about how much benefits she would lose.

She is not thinking about how it will affect the child to have a --- where the father's name should be.

Ohforfoxsake · 29/12/2009 13:56

I didn't put DP on the birth certificate when DS1 was born because the CSA can check through that route, and we didn't want them involved.

It was very easy later on to put him on the birth certificate. DS1 had my name and kept it so we've not had to change it. That might be a bit more form-filling I suppose.

I suggest keeping him off until you are sorted and putting him on later.

LadyBiscuit · 29/12/2009 14:02

I agree with Northern - if the father wants to be on the BC, unless the mother has reasons connected to abuse, she shouldn't be able to prevent his name appearing. It's very dodgy to leave him off for benefit reasons and really selfish too. Can you imagine finding out that your dad wasn't on your BC because your mum was worried she'd have her benefit cut? Bit self-serving isn't it?

FabHasHadALovelyXmas · 29/12/2009 14:04

I totally agree LadyBiscuit.

LadyBiscuit · 29/12/2009 14:04

Actually they don't put - fab, they put Father unknown

sunshiney · 29/12/2009 14:04

OP - i think it's far more important to consider naming him on the certificate will give him parental rights.

if he proves himself further down the line, then yes it would be great for him to have parental rights.

but giving 50 percent rights over your child to someone you say you 'don't know well enough' i really don't think is a good idea.

i am fully supportive of deserving fathers rights, and incidentally a man can apply for rights in court if he proves he has been sufficiently involved/supportive, even against the mothers wishes. it's a good system i think.

I don't think a blank on the certificate is going to stigmatise your child in this day and age.

Think carefully before signing over parental rights!!!!

Frostythesurfmum · 29/12/2009 14:04

Dsd's mum didn't put dh on dsd's birth certificate and she is really upset about it. We have offered to get it changed and have him put on, but she doesn't want to. What upsets her the most is that he wasn't on there in the first place, and it makes her feel like he didn't want her (which simply isn't the case).

If I could change anything about dh's past it would be that because I know how much it upsets dsd .

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