Where do I stand? Dc not wanting to see Dad....

[GuessWhatIAmANameChanger]

Sorry for the name change but my story makes me very recognisable, hope nobody minds too much?

I am waiting for a call back from Caffcas and my Sol. But I suspect neither will get back to me today so I am hoping that someone here can help!

Basically dd has not wanted to see her dad for the last week. Usually she is begging to see him every morning, this last week I tell her she is seeing him and she just says "Again? Do I have to go?" She is adamant that she does not want to, keeps on and on about it, gets upset but not in a tantrum, she is very sad.

Background, there is some risk of abuse but the courts have decided that the risk is low and he should have unsupervised contact. We do not have a defined contact order. Something happened last week that I was not happy with, it was reported to Caffcas and SS who decided there was not enough to investigate and contact should continue as normal.

Dd is 5.

I try very hard not to let my feelings or fears communicate to her and I think I am very succesful at it, dd has no problems talking to me about her dad in general. I have never caused her to miss a contact since the court case closed 18mnths ago, except for holidays when they have been changed, by agreement, not missed.

So, where do I stand with not taking her if she does not want to go?

Get a professional if you think that would not phase DD, but make sure you pick up next week with the school if her usual teacher has been off. Don't know what her Head's like but mine has seen it and heard it all before, a total professional. I am lucky have got goof support from the school cos they just want what's best for DS. (Normal state primary)

But, without loading the questions and asking direct qustions to get a yes / no answer, you really must try to find out from DD what this is all about yourself as her mum. Don't lead her (into giving certain answers, leave things open "What did daddy do with you last time you were with him? Did you go somehwere nice?" and take it from there. See what happens. Personally there are those that will say don't talk to your DD if professionals are involved and those that say do, I say you are her mum and as long as you don't lead her, you are the best person for her to talk to otherwise she might think you don't care.

unbelievable isn't it really - do they pay any attention to the news? Josef Fritzl, for e.g.?

Good luck with it GuessWhat - I am so glad for your DD that she has a lovely strong mummy who is prepared to listen to her and make sure she is comfortable in her choices.

Nigt night Guesswhat , sleep tight, hope things are a little bit clearer in the morning and yes, make some notes. What do you want for your DD ultimately. Is it feasible, can you live with it, can she? Just keep going your best you're doing brilliantly!! Night.

Dittany, he accepted a caution.

I had thought about my MP but I was unsure if this was really the kind of thing you can go to them about. I suppose sending a letter cannot hurt can it? I will stick that one in my arsenal too, thank you!

Thank you all for your encouragement, Thumb, your post made me cry - maybe I am not so strong!

you could ask GP for referral to family therapist - depending where you live would dictate what is available, it might be CAMHS linked or if you say inlondon then some place like tavistock / anna freud centre etc.

is intersting what ou say about "No, nothing defined. Currently 1 evening for 2/3 hours and 1 weekend day. Arranged between us and Cafcass. All changes and detail arranged between us. "

we have been doing contact centre and now cafcass officer has suggested coming to an arrangement thru CAFCASS...to be honest i am thinking that rather than allowing undefined contact to be set up, i should insist on all thru court and court orders?

the risks are more nebulous (emotional harm, possible physical agression) but i feel if i act reasonable and encouraging "sure let's try dropping them off with him at the play centre and leave them to it..." - it might all turn round one day...as dds dont want to see him unsupervised.

hope you get some clarity today .

If your dds don't want it them I would be tempted to insist on it going through the court and make sure that everyone is aware that the most important people in it are not happy with tte situation.

However, my decision with it was that it is safer to go for undefined as you have some control over how things progress. With a defined order you can say no a couple of times and you will be in court being told to keep to the terms or risk arrest, with undefined you can move things around more readily and courts like to see parents working together, it places you in a much better light if you do have to go to court at a later date, you can say "I have tried to work it out and be reasonable but...."

"I have tried to work it out and be reasonable but...."

i did try that when i intially moved out with the dcs in 2008 - gave him free access etc...he blew that one!

not sure how "recent" the trying to be reasonable has to be?

but can see the thinking behind undefined as well.

will see what CAFCASS says in next couple weeks. contact centre sessions end 4 july. we have court hearing end august anyway - i suspect they want to hear "it has moved onto unsupervised and everything is hunky dory" and just order some kind of agreed schedule? . but we'll see. if dcs were expressing desire to be dropped off with dad for the day then fantastic! but it aint so...

Well, the NSPCC have recommended that contact is re-assessed. They are very unhappy that he is having the level of contact he is and are contacting SS today on my behalf as well as CCing to the school and Cafcass.

Still waiting for the Sol to ring back - ARGH. Really need to speak to him today!

Thank Goodness.

I'm appalled that someone who has been cautioned for something so dreadful has been given unsupervised contact.

Wishing you and your daughter all the best.

glad you have NSPCC supporting you .

hurrah! A step forward - good stuff.

(and you ARE strong, you know, cos you're facing up to this and doing something about it so be proud of yourself! )

Thank you again

I wish I had come here months ago for some support and advice about it all. I was too scared of being accused of putting her in danger to even raise the issue. You have all been great!

That is exactly the way it seems Dittany, everyone is falling over themelves to uphold his rights but I actually don't have any rights as there are no rights - in law - to have your fears dealt with IYSWIM.

He is not on SOR any more, it only lasted 2 years.

`If you don't get a good response from the courts' Dittany???

I remember a while back you very clearly stating a while back that the courts don't make mistakes.

Does that mean you believe there are other parents (fathers as well as mothers) who may have been ill-served by the courts?

Well, Sol has a very different POV... need to think.

Ahh, no his POV is very similar to mine, in fact he has a very strong opinion of his own. The POV I meant was on a legal standing, as we have nothing "new" it is unlikely to be changed if we go back to court.

He felt there are better approachs to get the best kind of result for Dd.

Hello again Guess what.

Surely, the fact that your DD is suddenly refusing to see her dad is something new? It's the most important thing. It's the reason you have become more concerned, isn't it?

While she was asking to see her dad, you supported contact. Now she is refusing to see her dad. Different scenario. Now you are in the position of asking Cafcass if they are willing to FORCE her to have contact.

Entirely different situation in my view. Glad NSPCC want a reassessment.

Also glad you are taking the bull by the horns and growing in confidence !

Really don't know if this helps.....but...... My violent ex has continued his violence into a new relationship and in front of new womans kids. I insisted in court that he had a full forensic psyhiatric assesment. He's had that and it's bbeen very insightful. It's gone on to request a psychological assesment in more detail. It's best I can do fir my kids to ensure their safety. This report has already shown up new concerns that the professionals have uncovered.

This might be good for you. He will gave no place to hide. I'm shocked at what has been revealed in this report about my ex. Very shocked.

Great suggestion ILoveTiffany.

When you say you 'insisted' on the report, how did you do that? By refusing contact until it had been done?

I just kept asking everyone who Was involved. Made him take me to court for access, yes, his present partner had confided in me what had been happening, so it was easy to get. Told sol and carcass and they agreed, so it was asked for in court and granted. His behaviour had been bad though!! Involved weapons. In fact, I offered him phone contact and contact centre, but now I have read the true facts, I'm considering trying to get no contact at all........ The report was that bad.

ILove, that is awful

The thing with contact centres is that they are seen as a stepping stone not a permanaent situation so you need to be very clear about how contact will be supervised in the future if you do offer a center. Usually that will have to be family or friends and finding a friend who will offer to supervise tht you can both trust forever is very tough. Again many people will do it for a while but keeping up the level of supervision when they may never see a sign of the behaviour that is a problem is a lot to expect of someone.

We had reports by independant experts, again though, the problem was that a lot of the behaviour could not be taken into account in the reports. Meaning the court found them useful whilst I sat there thinking "but what about X, Y and Z????"