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Original poster

Where do I stand? Dc not wanting to see Dad....

75 replies

GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 25/06/2009 11:44

Sorry for the name change but my story makes me very recognisable, hope nobody minds too much?

I am waiting for a call back from Caffcas and my Sol. But I suspect neither will get back to me today so I am hoping that someone here can help!

Basically dd has not wanted to see her dad for the last week. Usually she is begging to see him every morning, this last week I tell her she is seeing him and she just says "Again? Do I have to go?" She is adamant that she does not want to, keeps on and on about it, gets upset but not in a tantrum, she is very sad.

Background, there is some risk of abuse but the courts have decided that the risk is low and he should have unsupervised contact. We do not have a defined contact order. Something happened last week that I was not happy with, it was reported to Caffcas and SS who decided there was not enough to investigate and contact should continue as normal.

Dd is 5.

I try very hard not to let my feelings or fears communicate to her and I think I am very succesful at it, dd has no problems talking to me about her dad in general. I have never caused her to miss a contact since the court case closed 18mnths ago, except for holidays when they have been changed, by agreement, not missed.

So, where do I stand with not taking her if she does not want to go?

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 26/06/2009 00:18

I can't imagine my own cafcass officer allowing this. Could you ask for another opinionfrom a different officer, because honestly, alarm bells would be ringing so loud for me!

Original poster
GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 26/06/2009 00:26

We have one of the most respected officers in the country, we also had a second officer review the files. There are several reports by outside agencies, social services have been involved all the way through and the police have been involved too.

Alarm bells have been ringing for years now. I have been told so many times by so many people that my alarms are not "enough to act on" I am begining to wonder if there is any sense lef ti n the system.

OP posts:
Mumofagun · 26/06/2009 00:26

At 5 , and regardless of the circumstances here, there's 1) the question of you stopping contact until someone listens or sorts out what is going on with DD

  1. If it is going to continue, where is the framework i.e. where is he taking her, to who's addresses, etc. Who is she coming into contact with?

If the situation is so delicate as you've described this has to be the priority. If he takes her to Grandmas house that's one thing, if he just goes to "friends" houses that's another. You need set rules. Stop contact until you have aired this with the CAFCASS Officer and something can be put in place to protect DD and you.

Original poster
GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 26/06/2009 00:29

Mum, he usually goes out on trips or to his house.

OP posts:
thumbwitch · 26/06/2009 00:30

Guesswhat, is it totally unreasonable for you to stay with DD when she sees her Dad? Would he object hugely to that (or would you, for that matter)? I just wondered if it might help - but obviously he wouldn't do anything bad while you were around, so if he is playing up, it might add to the confusion for your DD.

Can you not just speak to him and tell him that she is reluctant to go, and maybe ask him outright if he can think of any reason why that might be? It is massively unlikely that he would tell you, but it might throw him on the defensive so he'd get all blustery and it might give you more of a hint that all is not well..

for you and your DD.

GypsyMoth · 26/06/2009 00:31

And how long is this ad hoc contact to go on for? When will he be asking for overnights? Holidays?
You don't have to stop contact though, there are contact centres ( can't believe he's not in one) and there's indirect contact,via phone.

Original poster
GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 26/06/2009 00:38

TW, he would not be thrown by direct questioning, he has been through police, SS, independant reports.... little old me having a word is not going to make a mark sadly.

I am not able to stay with them (although I have done that in the past) as I have other dc who are not allowed contact with him (and I don't want them to have contact with him in any case). I also have no-one else who would be willing to do it, I have already used up all the favours I had, or will ever have!

OP posts:
Mumofagun · 26/06/2009 00:38

Yes, you are NOT under a defined contact order, so there you have it, sod what they are all telling you as experts and do what you know is right. You can't be punished. I'd say, and it seems so frustrating cos they all appear to know what's best for your DD, bollocks to the lot of them. Harsh but fair I'd say. Practicable?, well what else have you got to lose?. You can't be punished for stopping contact in this case, there's no order for that. My "Judge" expert has been telling me for years that my DS HAD to see his dad. It has been forced through the courts on her say so and now, after 6 years , DS doesn't want to see dad, like he never did, and dad has said ok. But it was the sane at 2, and 3 and 4 and 5 and 5 and 7 but a lot more distressing. XP and those bloody now alls put us through it for years, stay strong. They don't listen to the kids at a certain age because of "being fickle" and the chance of the parent "poisoning". But do they imagine the real parents (loving / caring) want to put them through that? They can't distinguish and so all kids get lumped together at that age.

Mumofagun · 26/06/2009 00:40

So sorry, ended up just having a rant. Take them on I say, they talk crap most of the time and don't know your life or relationship with DD or DD themself, regardless of CAFCASS. Be strong, it will sort itself out, that's one thing I do know.

Original poster
GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 26/06/2009 00:41

ILove, we have been through contact centres already, they are a short term measure not long term. He already has the right to overnights, holidays etc. He has no restrictions placed on him in his contact at all.

OP posts:
thumbwitch · 26/06/2009 00:42

I think, as the others are saying, you have to go with your gut instinct here. If he kicks up about it, then your case will have to be reviewed and hopefully some kind of sense would prevail (in the current climate of "we're not doing enough to protect vulnerable children", it might be better)

Start by saying she doesn't want to go and see what happens.

Original poster
GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 26/06/2009 00:46

I think that is the way to go for now TW. I will start by refusing when she wants me to and try to get NSPCC involved. I am hoping they will give me some kind of insight or wisdom at least!

OP posts:
Mumofagun · 26/06/2009 00:48

If your CAFCASS officer is one of the best in the country then that SHOULD be a start, so I would just say, "I've offered indirect contact until we can sort this problem out - I'm not stopping contact (which they don't like - you're just changing the nature of it), I just want to ensure that when DD sees dad she is happy to and there's no repurcussions as there seems to be now. We need to ge to the bottom of it just in case". And PUT IT IN WRITING!!!!!

Original poster
GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 26/06/2009 00:49

Don't worry Mum, it is a terrible area to be discussing, let alone experiencing.

I sometimes wonder if I should just be a bit more honest about my responses to him. After all, if they are going to treat her as if I have force fed her bile then I may as well mightent I?

Sorry, that is only half serious. I am sick of having to do the jolly "Give daddy a big cuddle goodby" when I actually feel like being sick whenever I am around him.

OP posts:
thumbwitch · 26/06/2009 00:49

it might be an idea to start the moves towards seeing the child psych as well, as it takes so long, just to give you some peace of mind, maybe? I don't know how that all works, I'm afraid.

Mumofagun · 26/06/2009 00:51

Surely with no court order he can't have a rigt to overnights, holidays etc? Not a RIGHT in law? If you don't give him an overnight what will the repercussion be on you? Nothing.

Original poster
GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 26/06/2009 00:52

Sorry, X posts there!

I think I will get my sol to write out to everyone and let them know what is going on and what is going to be done about it. Keeping it official helps me keep "emotionally" removed from the crap. It doesn't touch me so much if it is all in LegalEse!

OP posts:
Mumofagun · 26/06/2009 00:54

Guesswhat, don't be sorry, I got cross . I'm frustrated for you that's all cos I have been there, oh have I been there! And I've learnt a thing or two that could save you a bit of worry and pain, although all cases and all flippin Judges are different so I suppose nothing is definite.

Original poster
GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 26/06/2009 00:55

Mum, this is the stuff I need to put to my bloomin absent Sol [grr]

TW, I think I will, I just have to work out how to do it. Actually, I know someone who used a Child Psych, I will call her in the morning and ask her the process.

OP posts:
Original poster
GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 26/06/2009 00:59

I am frustrated too Mum, you would not believe the extremes I have thought through to try to sort this one out (actually you probably would!). I am angry all the time I think about it!

The best bit is that, because I have a link to him, I cannot follow my chossen job path with vunerable children as the association is deemed too much of a risk - yet he is allowed unrestricted contact with dd - because, apparently, being her father will mean she is safe from him

OP posts:
Mumofagun · 26/06/2009 01:03

Just to equate myself to you a bit, I WAS under a defined court order for two years. Then we had an agreement and the order was "as per the agreement" (our own agreement), which is an order, BUT, then it went to "Application (from him) deferred for 12 months allowing leave to reinstate". In other words, not under an order cos the Judge was quite happy we were sorting it out ourselves. Not that I ever did, but on the one occasion I tried to ask him to change a weekend, he said if I just did it, he would "do me for breach of court order". There was no court order, he tried on one ooccasion, and they couldn't do anything and where I had offered an alternative, I was the one put on a pedestal! You haver no court order, do not be worried. Let your DD take a week out, think about it, try talking to her, consult everyone then make a decision.

dittany · 26/06/2009 01:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 26/06/2009 01:07

Mum, thank you, you have been fantastic!

And to everyone else here too, you have all been great, I really appreciate your support and understanding.

I am feeling quite a lot clearer and stronger about it all now. I will sleep on it and write myself out some notes in the morning before I begin my phone marathon!

Thank you again, night all

OP posts:
Original poster
GuessWhatIAmANameChanger · 26/06/2009 01:08

Dittany, not quite that strong but yes - IYSWIM...?

OP posts:
dittany · 26/06/2009 01:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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