At what age will the courts listen to a child?

[Mumofagun]

My DS is 8. After a chequered history of seeing XDP since he was 2 1/2, and a lot of court action, DS no longer sees XDP because XDP told him he didn't have to. There is a long history behind all of this but in a nutshell, DS never did want to, regardless of encouragement by me. The courts did what they have to do and ensure that contact takes place. It never worked and no one, including XDP would see that it wasn't working until DS had been through the mill and was unhappy for nearly 6 years. The phone calls have always been worse. XDP calls once a week. Even when contact was taking place, DS would refuse to speak to XDP but in a nutshell (again!) I made him because it was part of the then court order. I have continued this because I don't know what will happen if I say he doesn't have to. DS is rude, stroppy, won't answer questions and basically plays "kevin the teenager" with XDP on the phone. It's got to the stage where it is so distressing for DS, he cries, clings etc, he won't do his weekly activity on that night because he is so upset. The last call DS told him he "could be happy if he never had to speak to him again". We are not under any court order now, although the case is still "live" iykwim. The thing is, XDP's decision to first reduce contact then cancel it stems from a new relationship. DS doesn't want to speak on the phone because the XDP's new DP's DS is constantly sitting on his lap talking into the phone,or XDP is constantly trying to make DS talk to his new DP's DC on the phone. DS is very angry. Any suggestions? Pleeeease!

Hello...I just looked at your message and thought that it had similarities with mine. My DS's dad also lost interest with new partner/family setups (which have since collapsed). Hope you don't mind but I'm sending you the link to this thread
I think we might benefit from our joint experiences!

Thankyou trulyscrumptious, tbh your thread was what prompted me to ask if anyone had any opinions about an 8 year old as opposed to a 12 year old. I totally agree with other posters that the courts really should be taking notice of a 12 year old if they appear mature enough to know what they are saying and understand the consequences. Although my DS comes across TO ME with what appear to be mature rational decisions and opinions, I'm just not sure the courts won't just say he's too young to know what he's talking about and probably that he's just been fed lines by me. I really appreciate your response. I've lurked for many a year now but things seem so bad for DS that seeing your post made me think that I could do with some sound advice of my own if anyone had an experience they could share. Thank you

Hi Mumofagun, I feel I should tell you here that this isn't the first time I've gone through something like this...my DD is 17 now but I had problems with access with her dad when she was tiny. She actually was interviewed by the court welfare officer (a nice lady) when she was three years old and the interview was taken into careful consideration by the court.
I haven't mentioned it on my thread in case anyone things I'm a dad-denying nutter - which I'm not!
So yes, IME the courts do listen to the children and the one who interviewed my DD was very sensitive. I was allowed to be in the room (our kitchen at home) but not to join in the conversation. For the record, DD was a very good talker at 3, probably equivalent to a 6yr old boy!
The courts came out in our favour that time and what a relief.
Good luck.

As far as I know, the courts take children's views into account from age 9 upwards and by age 12 it's virtually up to the child.

Thanks to both of you. I've unfortunately had the week from hell in terms of work so haven't been able to log on. The last phonecall this week was a bit of an eyeopener. XDP asked DS if he wanted to talk to him, DS said "No". XDP said he'd call next week and put the phone down! maybe this will sort itself out naturally but I'm reassured somewhat that if push comes to shove, DS may not necessarily be FORCED to speak on the phone, especially as I can't seem to control how he reacts to XDP, ie rude etc. Thanks again.

I really wish you all the very best of luck after reading this. Its a difficult situation and going by what you said you appear to me to be doing the best you can which cannot be easy. I think you have tried your best in trying to initiate contact with XDP and DS. I think at present the situation should be left. You have tried. At the end of the day XDP is totally shirking his responsibilities and without sounding awful DS would be better off without him. You sound like a lovely mum to me, I was a single mum for 6 years and its not easy. I think DS could think of this as rejection by XDP, let it go until DS is older.

your DS could do an age related competency 'test' called gillick competency which would potentially show how mature and of what age of understanding he is of iyswim he can be deemed gillick competent and therefore able to make decisions for himself including whether to 'divorce' himself of a parent. you would need to discuss this with the child support worker who is appointed to you for this kind of case or ask to be referred to one by the courts. this test would also highlight his feelings in a better way and may pinpoint any areas he needs more support with.

here is a link explaining this further

HTH and your DS gets what he needs soon
xx ei xx

FYI this is mainly used in medical cases but has been used in parental/family law cases and there are similar competency tests your DS can take so he can speak for himself
xx ei xx

Thanks for that SmilingEi, I had heard of it but thought it was predominantly to do with the Pill! I sort of had in my head that if a child is criminally responsible from the age of 10 then it follows that a Family court would view a child's competence in the same way iyswim. I know that's more about right and wrong but I had all these ages muddled up in my head. Btw, DS's reaction was quite sad for me really because when he realised XDP just accepted he didn't want to talk to him he punched the air and said, "That was easy". I asked him if that was really what he wanted and was so adamant with the "you bet it is" I was still taken aback. I know what will come of this in the future because I've had it levelled at me about everything, "my fault, I've poisoned him and it's ingrained" DS clearly tells me that I'm not to be upset as he's the one making the decisions. How grown up is that? I feel like maybe I must have done something wrong, or maybe I'm just scared that I'll have to go through all of the accusations again and somehow prove that it takes more than me to encourage a relationship to actually make one.

sounds like you are doing everything you can and thats all you can do! if you believe your DS is able to make this decision and you are doing everything in your power to support both sides then it really is now down to your XP to take the baton and put up a fight for his DS!! if he isnt prepared to do that then theres not a whole lot anyone from the outside will be able to do IYSWIM
it would be worth speaking to whatever formal support network you may have to find out if there is anything they can do ie speak to your DS and get some sort of outline of HIS feelings on paper just in case there are any comebacks from your XP. the courts have to take into account what is best for the child and if he is adamant he wants nothing to do with your XP and it will ultimately make him unhappy to have contact then they should listen to that
xx ei xx

Aaaagghh! She says releasing pent up frustration!! The whole point has been that for the past 6 yrs+ he has been happy to fight ME and NEVER listen to, tune into, take notice of DS, but like you say, when it comes to fighting for DS he's more or less given up because I know that's not what all of this was ever about. Now he has new life etc with a "new" DS, albeit his DP's, he can't be bothered, so.... deep breath, I will leave things there but, one more piece of advice would be appreciated. If he now for the bloodymindedness of it and just so he could tell the courts, HE phoned EVERY week, how long would you let it go on for, each week DS being asked the same question, "Do you want to speak to me?" "No", "Talk to you next week", phone down. I do organise everything on that evening around the time he calls. I could say, he'll get bored with it himself, then again I know his warped sense of perspective to push me into refusing "indirect contact". Any thoughts?

I think I get your point. Sorry if we are all pissing you off. Regarding your ex for the past 6 years its all been about what he thinks and wants from you. Not DS. I know exactely what you mean. Am i right

Oh no, big apologies.. Noones pissing me off!. The Aaargh, was because you hit the spot when you said "fight for his DS". I felt a release in a strange sort of way! He never has, he only ever likes fighting me!

Please, please don't think I was annoyed with anyone.

i would maybe take a record of the calls for a few weeks and let your support worker know as it will affect what way they approach the case if XP decides to proceed with anythin in the future.
i would maybe actually record the conversations as 'evidence' just in case. first things first though is speak with your support worker and see what she thinks
you sound like you are doing a really good job and your DS is lucky to have such a loving and supportive mum
xx ei xx

Thanks SmilingEi. I do keep an almost verbatim record of both what I hear DS say on the phone, and as XDP yells so flippin loud down the phone, I can hear almost all of it from across the room. I'm really careful about not grilling DS about what XDP has said to him. I write what I know, then I fill in the gaps when DS mentions bits & pieces at later stages voluntarily. O f course I ask the odd question but its usually in response to some comment DS makes when he gets off the phone, like, "what did he say to you to make you say x"? XDP has in the past, when I have had all my diarised accounts of what has been said, what happened etc, just told the courts that I have made it all up. The difference now is that DS is older and can confirm (if he remembers!) or deny what I write. That has been my biggest problem in the past, they wouldn't listen to DS because of his age so XDP got away with all sorts because I couldn't "prove" anything!