Should I accept irregular, unreliable contact from ex rather than nothing at all?

[betsybunnkin]

My exh and I have been apart for over a year. He used to see our dc (5 of them!) twice a week and I used to think this was not enough. Little did I think it would grow worse and less frequent, but it did!
He refuses to discuss set days and times when he will visit and/or help with the dc. He likes to arrange a visit via email a couple of days before (usually a for few hours) then promise to contact again when he is leaving to arrange another.
He has been twice for a few hours each time in the last six weeks. He has never had dc overnight (saying he has nowhere to to take them as he is staying with a relation) and will often cancel at the last minute.
I confess I have threatened him before with arranging contact via legal avenues only as I find it stressful and upsetting to deal with this. He is too lazy and indolent to pursue access this way and has then promised to help more, but never follows through.
At the moment he is off work as was made redundant a couple of months ago. It makes me so cross to think he is doing absolutely nothing during the day whilst I struggle with four children under five. I haven't had a break since he left (sorry moaning).

I know I can't force him to help or see the children. I just don't know what to do next. He says he wants to be a father and see more of them but it is all just words.
He won't actually discuss the situation, just refuses and won't tell me of his intentions towards the dc verbally or in writing.
Sorry this is long, I am quite at the end of my tether. I want him to take his share of the responsibility as is right.
Is there anything I can do? I'm feeling quite desperate and weary at the moment.

Thanks for reading

Sorry to hear your situation betsy, you have my sympathy. Can you get friends or family to help out every now and then, just to give you a bit of a break?

I can but rarely. There being so many of them makes it a huge favour (even for a few hours and despite the dc being very well behaved).
I have to save family favours for important appointments and that kind of thing where I can't take all the children.
It just feels wrong that I should be made to struggle so when they have a father. I cannot see any end to it. I have no chance to pursue interests/hobbies outside of the home as I once did. We had nursery part-time for some of our children but we were paying for this ourselves (dc not of an age to receive free govt nursery places) but this was one of the first things to go when ex was made redundant.

Forgot to add. Since exh was made redundant I am slowly starting to come to the end of my money.
If I try to refuse these irregular visits on the grounds that it is not good enough/not enough etc then exh threatens to withhold further money "if that's what it takes" he says.

I suppose you need to ship them off to various different family members and friends then! I know, easier said than done. It's an awful, unfair situation for you. Is there any chance of a reconciliation? Probably a stupid Q. But he made the decision as well as you to have these children, he has a huge responsibility. Unfortunatly there's no way of forcing him to spend time with them. I've often pondered this myself, the courts are there for granting access but can in no way enforce it. Such a shame.

Seems a bit mean to withhold visits, however brief. At least he's still seeing them. Little and often is by no means perfect but is better than nothing, imo. I know it's a horrible painful situation to be in (I really do) but try to stay calm. If he's threatening to withhold money sounds like it could get nasty.

Yes, overnight stays with relations become nightmares and need careful planning.
They have only stayed away from me once for a night when our baby was born earlier this year. It would have to be for something as important as that only.
No chance of a reconciliation. I could have tolerated him for the sake of a "life" and help with the dc and security even though I no longer love him ( yes really). It is his near abandonment of the children and lack of care and support have made this impossible

I'm just not being the best parent I can while I'm so overburdened. His current visits of approx one a month are of no real help at all.
I predict it will not be long before he disappears completely. He appears to have lost all sense of morals and responsibility.
It just feels so unfair, he has no job at the moment, has a social life and pretends to care about the dc but will not take his share of the responsibility.

Maybe he's still smarting about the break up? I know men find it hard to push their feelings aside for the sake of the children. (sorry, some men)

The only other thing you can do is to carry on, in a calm manner, telling him that they are still his responsibility and they love and need him in their lives. It's down to him if he choses to be a good father to them or not. You, however, will be safe in the knowledge that no matter what you've always put your children first and have always been there for them. When they are older it will be you they confide in, you they love unconditionally, and you who created memories in their lives. :-)

Of course he's not, he's relishing the freedom. Life can be terribly unfair. Does he have family? How about a letter to his mother requesting some practical help, seeing as her son is often too busy to help out?

I've already tried to shame him into helping by contacting his mother. She doesn't want to get involved so she says and to be honest she hasn't seen the dc for two years (lack of interest) so I knew it would be a long shot.

Yes you're right he appears to be enjoying his single life very much. I think seeing the children (perhaps) makes him feel guilty briefly so he keeps it to a minimum. I'm just guessing now.
My own mother has said not to worry that I can have a life in a few years when the dc are grown up. As much as I'm trying to devote myself to the dc and concentrate on the positives. I sometimes feel trapped and a prisoner.
I feel selfish in that I want him to help for my sake as much as his relationship with the children.

betsy, did you leave? (not meaning this in a bad way) Maybe your ex is still hurting from the rejection IYSWIM. Is there any chance at all to go back to work for you? I know the dc are very small but if money is tight maybe there's a chance your mum could help a bit more rather than dispense wise words ("not to worry that I can have a life in a few years when the dc are grown up"). Come on, they're not going to be grown up for at least 10 years.

I think the best way forward is to not withhold contact. You may no longer want a husband but your kids surely want (and deserve) a father! I appreciate the way you feel about the money issues and irregularity of visits but I'm tel;ling you from experience that the harder you make it for him to see them the more likely it will backfire. I'm not saying you should be a doormat, far from it, but you both brought these children into the world and just because one of you is sowing his wild oats doesn't mean the other can neglect them as well. I'm not saying you do, but the feeling of resentment can run deep and I'm telling you now to think about ways how you can turn things around rather than wait for your ex's help which by the sound of it is a long way off.

Is there no creche or nursery they can go to at least for 1-2 days to allow you a bit of breathing space? Could your parents not front that money? Have you ever thought of bringing in an au pair? You have to house them but they don't cost that much? Surely you get children's tax credits and all that. Maybe if you went back to work you'd get even more. I think you would benefit from getting out of the house and meeting new people. Don't wait till the kids fly the nest. You deserve to live now!

Btw: you are not selfish at all, he should help his fair share but he doesn't, so you have to make other plans. Don't forget, your dc will in years to come love and appreciate you for all the hard work you've done.

gosh that must be hard, how old are you dc?

My husband left me (it was some nonsense about him not buying a birthday gift combined with other things which escalated,fades in comparison with his behaviour since he left) he did ask to come back in the first month, but has since settled into his new life happily and tells us nothing of what he does and where he is. I could have easily lived a lie with him rather than this, but he has behaved terribly and I don't think he would want to come home now anyway.
I am living on savings and left-over redundancy money, I don't get any money from the government at all including tax credits. So I can't afford an au pair, and some of the children did go to nursery for a couple of days a week, but as I said that was the first cutback which had to be made when finances started to get tight. My parents will not help financially.
Ex's threat of withdrawing money means I would be forced to apply for state help if he did. I think that's why he does it, though I believe his money will start to run low soon.
I'm afraid my mother looks after my sister's dd once a week over night with regularity but won't even offer to look after one or two of my children which would be a help. I'm afraid that if I bring this up she will withdraw what little help she does offer.- this would be a real possibility as she can be petty. I agree cashmere that realistically it would be over a decade before I could begin to have any sort of life outside of the children and she appears to be telling me to be resigned to my situation.
It all sounds a bit of a mess really. Our dc are 9,4, 2x2 and 3 months.
I think I hope by withdrawing permission for the once monthly visits that he will be forced into action and do more. I really do want him to see the children; as I have said as much for my own sake for the help it would bring as for the sake of his relationship with the dc.
I did want to go to work eventually (for a break even ) but the costs of childcare and after school help would make it so difficult. I suppose I still will even if part time but I cannot do this immediately.
I feel the ex is doing this to me because he can, he knows how much hard work this all is and accuses me of being self absorbed when I complain. I send off long letters in the form of emails to try to convince him to do the right thing and they are just ignored.

It is helping to talk about it though so thank you, It's so frustrating.
I'm glad also that people don't think I'm selfish by wanting to have some sort of life. I just feel like my life is over at the moment in a way.
The children are most important, it looks like I'll have to agree to another irregular visit though as he sent an email yesterday saying "I have some money for you, when can I see the children?" like he is buying the time

Oh god betty, I am really for you and so sorry that you've been left in the lurch like this.

You're life is not a mess hun. Don't think that way please. All your babies are healthy and have a warm hearted mum who's trying her best!

Is there no chance you can speak to him (I'd be careful of putting words in writing as he might hold it against you). Say that you need his help, the dc need his help, it was a joint decision to breathe life into them and can he not take pity for them and help you out. If not for your sake, then for their little hearts. I just feel so writing this to you but I cannot think of another way to procure more ££ or an extra pair of hands. You can rant at my MN cyber shoulder though. Other wise MNnetters will be up soon and might be able to help.

The UK government throws thousands of £££ away for crap but it's just such an unfair system? Have you seen CAB and others? It seems blatantly unfair that you get no financial help whatsoever despite having born 5 dc and having to maintain them!

Have you seen the CSA? Or spoken to a solicitor? The first hour is normally free and they can maybe point out ways to get the help all of you need and deserve. For God's sake I really cannot think why your parents are letting you struggle on like this!!! I am so at your behalf with your mother's behaviour.

I'm sorry I can offer no more practical help betty, but I'm sure others will be along soon to give you tipps.

sotty, betsy, I meant. Jeez, I need another cup of coffee

sorry...

[trawls off and thinks it is too early to be typing]

betsy you do need help but i think you know you won't get it from him. suggest two things, the next time he comes get yourself (and maybe the 3month old) ready to leave the house and tell hem you have an important appointment so it's a happy coincidence that you're here at this time see you later.
Go somewhere to just sit quietly not moving and enjoy.
The other thing is what has been mentioned before, don't factor him in at all in your arrangements for childcare and when he rings he has to fit in with their existing plans or even send him their schedule.
You DO need to go to CAB get advice about your entitlements i.e. legal and financial inc. nursery places. They are lovely and will hold your hand through it all and be a surrogate husband/mum if you like.
Ring today, your local branch will be in the phonebook.

just going by thread title that's (accepting irregular, unreliable contact) what I've had to do for my 2 daughters from my marriage - I can't pretend it was a breeze and he went on to hurt them terribly BUT they still love him, even though actual years elapse now between postcards/phone calls, never mind actual visits

I feel strongly that they are entitled to look for the best in him and to have whatever relationship they can salvage from the mess

what I did to protect myself was enlist 3rd party support so he could contact/see them through someone else, otherwise I might have killed him if I'd had to come face to face with him

Is the CSA involved? His threats to withhold money are mean and cruel, but may just be threats. Mind you if he has been made redundant, will he have any money anyway?

Have you checked your benefits situation? If his money is reducing, you may be entitled to more.

Re contact, if he emails to arrange something to suit him, only agree if it suits you. Don't change your plans to fit in with his sporadic commitment. He fits in around you or not at all. When your children are older they can make their own arrangements to see him. If he's at all committed as a father, he will want to see them no matter what. If he backs off because you start taking control, then he's no sort of father.

The benefits system is a bit of a mine field. I have 2 DC and an unreliable ex. When he left I felt like I was drowning in a sea of decisions and debt. The three things that helped me out were ranting on mumsnet, entitledto.com and gingerbread.co.uk

I played around with different scenarios on entitledto to work out what would suit my circumstances best. For me its being self employed. I don't earn that much but it means I get 80% of childcare costs covered and my basic household income topped up to a just about liveable level. I need the childcare for sanity (for me its 3 days a week so I have some balance) - I love my kids but if they've had a series of bad nights or days I need the sanity adult time. Buying the time in childcare has also enabled me to start getting the rest of my life straight - so hard to do with Mummy can you...., he's hitting me.... or finding myself tidying up at a rate just a little slower than the mess being generated by my whirlwinds.

Gingerbread have a load of fact sheets and I believe free advice lines. Its free to join if monies tight. You may find through them a local single parents group who can help with all sorts of things like pointing you in the right direction for childcare.

Re unreliable visits - its really tough to admit its in their best interests to have regular contact and painful to be the intermediary of that contact. Can you work out some basic ground rules that will help you have some control like best times to visit are on a Saturday afternoon( even if it isn't every Saturday). Ideally I should be given 3 days notice as a minimum of access visits, you can/ can't use the home, I will/ wont be present.

Don't try to tackle everything at once. Start with one thing at a time - maybe calling Citizens advice this week. Good luck, I think it does get easier, the emotions are certainly less raw.

Sorry thats gingerbread.org.uk

I think gingerbread can offer you a subsidised 'nanny' type service in certain circumstances. Also you should contact your local surestart centre and your health visitor for advice and help.

Don't waste time, energy and your life trying to make your ex be something he's not. Get on with your life and find your own solutions. If he's around that's a bonus FOR THE CHILDREN, but certainly don't rely on him for anything or expect anything for yourself from him.

The idea about going out and leaving him to the kids when he does come over is a good one.

You also need to ask for help. If your mother is offering not much support anyway then you've not got much to loose by making it clear you need help and if it's not going to be family that help you are going to be calling on outside organisations for that help in the very near future as you are very quickly going insane. Don't know if you are, I certainly did for a while though and I only have one child!

Tell your mother you need help and tell her exactly what you would like. Ie could she at least treat you and your sister equally and have one of your children overnight once a week too. Or could she take 2 or three of teh older ones to teh park for an hour, or help you out on a trip to the park with them all.

Also wondering why can't you claim any government supportat all? At the very least you should be entitled to Child Benefit. And if any of the children are over 3 you should get some free places at a playgroup or nursery. Also nurseries and playgroups sometimes are able to get funding for needy children and may be able to get you a subsidised place. You won't know until you ask.

If you have redundancy money which is fast vanishing then your situation might have changed significantly enough to start claiming Income Support. Don't say 'I'm not entitled to anything', find out for sure. Bear in mind the government expect you to ask, they don't tell you what you are entitled too. So ask someone who knows, like CAB, gingerbread or Surestart.

Surestart are there for families with younger (preschool) children. So if I were you I would make t hem my first stop.

best wishes
Gilly

oh god betsy this sounds terrible, I am having a bad day and reading this I feel like crying for you.

I have got 1 dd who is 18months and very clingly and I feel like I need to get more of a life and feel that I am not living. If you have 5 it must be very very hard for you.

You are not selfish for feeling this way, you need some help and a break. Sorry have not got any advice but really feel for you.

I do not have much help with dd, my mum has a young bf who smokes weed so cannot take her there, even tho my mum always offers.

My sister always offers and is great, but I dont want to over load her and only take her when I really need to.

DD's dad was violent and smashed in my door about 6 weeks ago and from then has text me asking to see her a few times but has bail conditions and has been told only to contact me through a solicitor to see dd, which he has not done yet. So I feel very upset that in 6weeks he has not bothered to get a solicitor so he can see dd.

Sorry to babble on about myself but just wanted to let you know you are not alone, and you are still coping with a much harder job then me. You must be a very strong woman, which you probably forget all the time... x x

yes, set a parental agreement through the law which you will probably get help freely. this agreement is signed by both of you and has to be applied by. If he doesnt appy by it the law is on your side or just take responsibility for yourself and get on with it , you can do it as I do.I have and ex who is so unreliabel and wants to fit things just around him, well I dont, and the kids are bette off without him, although if he does want to see them I let him but if we have made other plans at the same time we stick with our plans, he can go to blazes as he blows in and out, so the kids feel more secure with me. I never run him down to the kids they will learn what he is like, as long as my children are healthy and safe,thats great. If things get you down, go to a counseller she has helped me set boundaries around me (strategies) how to deal with him. Its working, otherwise he will always turn my world upside down like it was when i was with him.get up and go girl.Its worth it all and you and your children will have a great future.