Not Enough Contact

[MissingMyBoy]

My ex wife and I separated in October last year. Since then she has made getting any reasonable contact with my ds very difficult. I currently only get 2 hours twice a week. There is no domestic violence or welfare issues, so why won't she let me see him more. I looked after him equally from birth until 10 weeks old when she left. All I want to do is be a good dad but she won't let me. How much contact does everyone think a good dad should get to a child he loves?

Nothing helpful to say, apart from Aloha's right. There are so many dads who don't care, you sound like a great guy.

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Hi everyone, thanks for the support so far. Just to pick up on a few of the postings since last night.

Rickman - i ended up in the family home because she left me - no other reason and she had her mum and dad close at hand. She has now taken an occupation order out on me even though she cannot afford to live here - I am leaving quietly as I don't want to waste £2.5k of the equity I have worked so hard to get to fight over a house. I am from Scotland and have few friends and no relatives down here. She has all of her family around her - we met on the internet.

I have known ex for nearly 6 years - 5 too many probably - it is not necessarily her that is hostile - it is her sols and counsel - yes she get represented by barristers on legal aid I can only afford sols or myself - really rough justice. For example, in occupation order hearing her barrister talked about making an application for non-molestation. I had not spoken, texted, written, e-mailed or anything else to my ex for 3 months - just mud slinging by the evil, vicious, adversarial legal system that we have which only forces couples apart.

Relaistically, what I want is proper shared parenting - I am willing to use flexible working to work hard some days to ensure that I can take half days on others to spend time with my ds. Yes I do love doing the normal stuff changing, bathtime etc - I did more than half when they lived here. I want 5 nights out of 14 with alternating weekends and a reasonable amount of holidays. Nobody takes into consideration that I carried out the majority of night time feeds prior to her leaving and a lot of the other tasks. She did not breastfeed, so as much bonding took place between me and ds as it did with her. There is no reason why early shared parenting should not work and there is no research to prove otherwise.

I am already a paid up member of FNF and will soon be a member of F4J as I believe the more peple that join these organisations then the more justice will have to listen. 90% of people in my type of separation i.e. just don't get along, no adultery or anything else, settle their finances and child contact amicably and without one visit to the courts. I have spent hours in court so far, alone and battling against a legal system whose highest advocates damn the current law as flawed. It has to change my ds is being denied the love of not just me but also my entire extended family while my ex has returned to the Mormon fold of her family and is indoctrinating my ds into that evil society.

To somebody, I fully appreciate your situation and agree with not giving overnight contact to somebody who doesn't care enough. I am not like that, I did all the overnights for the first 5 weeks, arguably the most difficult time - ds is now sleeping through, so why does it matter if he sleeps at hers or mine? I do disagree though, time is not on my side, with contact limited to 4 percent of available waking hours ds knows me no more as a father than an uncle - he sees more of his uncles at church on a sunday than he does with me all week - NOT FAIR and DEFINATELEY NOT IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILD s1 Childrens Act 1989 - but try telling a judge that!!!!

Anyway, enough of me rambling on - thanks for the support and advice, its really helpful

Missing My Boy....I cannot really say anything to you that will help.But boy do i wish that my exp showed half the interest in his son that you show yours.I hope that you get this resolved in a way that is best for your ds...good luck xx

A lot of people will tell you - rightly - that things can improve. Exes get fed up with being angry and obstructive and you have lots of time to have a wonderful relationship with your son (though you may not feel like that now). Remember people adopt children much older than your son and form intimate parental bonds, so please don't feel that it is now or never. Is your ex really a Mormon? No experience but that would freak me out too.
My dh's ex fought him over contact, used to phone up in a rage and was generally impossible and vile but with time things have calmed down a lot these days and the era of literally shaking with anger and upset at opening horrible solicitors' letters (and I agree with you about how some lawyers seem to actively enjoy stirring up conflict) seem like a bad dream. If you do keep on with the contact you have then I am sure it will be increased in time. Easy for me to say, I know. I live with my children and cannot imagine being parted from them, but I'm not sure you have a realistic alternative right now. And do offer to babysit whenever your ex wants a night out or has stuff to do in the day. When your son is older she will probably want this more than she does now when he is still tiny. It's easy-ish to -eg - go shopping with a baby and a nightmare with a toddler.

MMB, why is your ex being so difficult? Have you not been to mediation? I thought that nowadays, you have to go to mediation before solicitors etc. get involved, so that all the legal mudslinging etc., can be avoided altogether?

You can refuse mediation. My dh's ex did.

Are you still allowed to, even in this day and age? I thought you had to go to at least one session?

I went to be screened for mediation and got told by the mediator that my best chance was 6 hours a week - before she had even heard of any of the background story - mediators are just another source of wasting money - FNF will back me up from the number of wasted sessions I have heard about. I want to go down the Relate route to iron out all of the relationship problems so that focus can be on ds welfare, but she is refusing. Costs 1/5 of the cost of a mediator and will resolve the real issues which need addressing to enable the next 17 1/2 years to pass without animosity. I want to lead my own life as much as she does, but I want my ds to be as big a part of it had we stayed together. She doens't seem to understand that - until she comes round to my way of thinking I am that bad smel that won't go away (I don't really smell - that is not why she left me )

I didnt have to go to mediation, it was briefly mentioned as an option but thats all. My solicitor informed me that i could quite easily stop all contact unless my ex-p 'played by my rules'. She also told me that i could apply for a restraining order and that it would be very expensive and take months for my ex to take me to court to get a judges order (thingymabob!) by which time he would prob have given up anyway. Whilst this sounds like heaven, i actually went to sols to see if i could get my ex to have more regular contact with my daughter. After about 3 months i gave up with sols - i didnt know who to believe and what to do for the best. Now, he just breezes in and out when he pleases, if he lets her down, i make him call her and tell her so she doesnt have any memories of me saying'daddys not coming' - she will make her own mind up when shes older i guess.

Nikz - I think my ex must be using the same brand of sol as your old ones - i.e. the poisonous ones. The one set of people never to believe are sols.

Unfortuneatley, there is nothing you can do to compel your ex to have contact with your dd, however, your ex isn't in a nice desk job like me, so probably does struggle more than I would to make contact regular. Your dd seems to like him lots, so he must be a good dad if soemwhat unreliable.

Does he know and believe that you want him to have more contact? What age is he? How much contact does he get when he sees her once in 8 weeks, is it a couple of days? - from my viewpoint, that may lead to him becoming a Disneyland Dad, i.e. your dd only ever sees him doing the nice stuff, not the disciplining when she is naughty etc. It does sound like you are bringing your dd up brilliantly though as she does seem very well adjusted for such a young thing.

Thanks mmb - nice to hear. He is 30, he usually sees her for the wknd, but that includes 500miles of travelling for her - it does affect her but its like she puts up with it to see him. He has got better and calls her over the phone a lot, something which you cant do yet, but any contact is good. And yeah, he is a total disneyland dad but after them 2 days - he is well ready for her to leave and i think she knows that too. I have to say though, she is a shining example of someone who doesnt see her dad very often and relies on me for everything but still adores her daddy for being her daddy - something which you should take into consideration. With your attitude i honestly think you will bond with your son with no problems - your ex sounds like she wants to get at you rather than do whats best for your son - something which i have felt like doing lots - stick with it and DONT give up.

Thanks Nixz, I will never give up, not with support from this site, friends, family, work, FNF etc its just sad when you realise that you are not the only person in your situation and there are tens of thousands of others.

How does your dd travel then? Do you drop her off or does he collect? Long journey for such a little one to make!! If I were your ex I would make the effort to come see your dd.

Yeah he travels up, collects her then brings her back. I have offered to let him see her at my house to 1/2 the travelling but he doesnt. I realise its a long journey to make, he never lets me forget it!! I dont think once a month is unreasonable to ask though, he often uses 'work' transport and the majority of his finacial commitments are for the pub, his hobbies and his fantastic new sofa which my daughter is monitored on 24/7 when she breathes near it!!!!!!!!! He loives in quarters so his rent etc is non exsistent, less than mine anyway.

Agree that just because you are in your child's life less it doesn't mean they will love you less. My dh's daughter adores him and we see her alternate weekends. I know this sounds a lot but like you my dh did most of the childcare for his dd when she was small, and when his ex left him for another man, she left him to look after their daughter for two years, until she had moved in with the new man. Then when I arrived on the scene (four years after she left and when she had a baby with her new partner) she told dh that she was going to court to get his contact reduced to one day a MONTH!! This didn't quite work, and though dh still misses his daughter a lot, their relationship is very strong and near daily phone calls help a lot, which is something that can begin to happen when your son is older. So I would say yes, be persistent, don't give up, but also try to always be the reasonable one. I think children come to realise who is being fair as they got older.

yes aloha - i have a friend at work whose son now almost detests his mother because she made seeing daddy so difficult. Also have another freind whose son came home with a phone his step mum gave her. He said Mum, I found your phone number in my new phone, it's under "bitch" - he is 9 years old.

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thanks somebody, but this is not about what I want, it is about what is in the best interests of our ds. Both my ex and myself can provide a wide spectrum of different abilities that can turn our ds into the well rounded individual that we both want - this cannot be done with alternating weekends - our ds needs more involvement from his daddy and I am willing to provide that. What is important here is that my ex does not want my involvement because it affects her finances, nothing to do with the well being or develpoment of our ds - just greed on her part.

I am willing to meet my full CSA obligation irrespective of the number of overnight stays I get - money for this is not important, it is about my son reaching his full potential in life that is important to me. That can only be achieved with both of our involvement, she alone will not manage it.

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MMB, I sympathise with your situation, but I'd just like to echo what others have said; keep in mind that your DS's welfare is so dependent on his mother, whether you like it or not, that if you and her can't come to a civilised modus vivendi, then that is going to affect him adversely anyway. You've got 18 years (or more!)of needing to co-operate with each other, and it's easy for others to say, but the slow, sure route really is a more effective way than quick results now which may lead to years of recrimination and bad feeling, which would damage your DS.

It may be unfair, it may be unjust, but very often, parenting isn't about fairness, it's about putting the needs of the children first. You shouldn't have to "earn" the right to see your DS and have your xp trust you to look after him, but in the real world, I think you have to accept that that's what you have to do. I think Aloha's advice here is spot on - very often, people just get tired of being unreasonable and obstreporous, particularly if the other party is consistent, determined and courteous. Keep plugging away, let your ex know that you're not going to go away, but do it in such a manner that she can't point to bad behaviour on your part to prove that you don't deserve access - don't give her any ammo. When she sees that you're genuinely motivated by concern for your child's welfare, rather than animosity towards her, then if she's got any sense (and I presume she has, as you had a baby with her!) she'll gradually realise that your presence in her DS's life is a positive and good thing, and she'll want to encourage it. But it's a long term thing, (you've got your DS's whole life to go), not a quick fix.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but doing things on her terms now (while making it clear to her that you want more involvement in your DS's life) will probably reap you far better dividends in the future in terms of being able to build up a proper relationship with your DS, than joining a group like f4J, who are more interested in the rights of fathers than in the welfare of children.

My partner and i are gradually breaking up since ds was born 11mths ago, he thinks he's trying at our relationship and i'm not and vice versa, i feel so unsupported but i know he adores his son. In the last few weeks he's 'telling' me when he's coming to take his son out...even wanting to take him to paris to meet his family for the weekend. I'm still bf eve's, nights and mornings! I know he's his father, i'm so angry at the way he's treated me and not supported me but i know i have no right to stand between him and his son but emotionally its hard, i've been ds main carer, i know ex loves him but he's my baby! I know i have to share, i know he'll take good care of ds while he's with him but its so hard and i',m so angry with him!

Babyburps, I know it is hard for new mums to let go of their children when they have been main carer, but I am so impressed by your attitude that you know you have to share. My ex wife refuses to accept this and believes that my ds who had his daddy there every day, who cared for him as much as he could, should only see his daddy twice a week now, when we live within 5 miles of each other. It is costign a fortune in legal bills and is taking ages to get anywhere. I just wish my ex would try Relate as an option - have you ever considered it - I know it has helped others in a pre/post separatation situation. Good luck, and try to look for the good in things, not the bad.

Look - no disrespect to anybody, but we have to be careful about taking what someone says at face value.

I apologise MissingMyBoy - I'm not saying that this is the case with you, and I agree that you should have the right to see your son. However, I have a situation at the moment where I have a residency order for my Grandson. I don't see how your wife can "get what she wants from CAFCASS or the judge" - regardless of what the 'losing' party (or even the media) says, these people do not just give one person what they want.

Our grandson was beaten up by his father and yet we still had to go through a very difficult, stressful procedure with the courts, CAFCASS and the social services, etc - not knowing what the decision was going to be until the final day.

GS's father comes across as a reasonable person and sounds very plausible (until you get to know him or the mask slips). He claims no knowledge of GS's injuries, claims no violence or welfare issues and I honestly do think that he genuinely beleives this - however, the professional and medical opinions differ. He claims to want to be a good dad and if you didn't know the background, you would probably beleive everyword he says.

And now it loks likely that we will have to go through it all again. have a look at this

I do wish for the sake of all those fathers that are genuine, that I could make a positive contribution here ... but personal experience tells me to be cautious.

Agreed joash, but every situation is different and the reasons Families Need Fathers exist is primarily because of the injustices everybody, not just fathers, face when they go to court to resolve family matters.

I know of one guy who clipped his 15 year old step-daughter around the ear when she came home drunk and he now has a lifelong criminal record as a Schedule 1 child offender, yet I have seen my ex sister-in-law heavily smack her children repeatedly on several occassions and what happens to her - nothing.

There is research that shows that women physically abuse children more than men - I am not saying this research is right or wrong, just that childcare is gender neutral. Either parent can be guilty of abusing a child - men are automatically guilty, women seem to be innocent until proved.

I have never harmed my ds or ex and never would.