Ok, Ds1 has asked me to contact his father. Can anyone help me please?

[Flightattendant4]

He's five and a half and knows that his Dad lives near us.

His Dad hasn't been to see him since he was about 18 months old, and things were very tense between us which made it hellish for all concerned.

I've asked him repeatedly to visit - last Christmas I went to his new house and we talked briefly, his new wife was a bit cross that I turned up - I wanted to invite him to ds's first Xmas play. Sadly he said no, he couldn't, because he was working that day

Since then I have seen the wife and she spoke to me, was friendly - she has a child at ds's old school, but he has now moved to another school so no chance of contacting them that way.

I know their house and their number (I think - but not supposed to, I googled their address and it came up as her son's website, so feel a bit ick about that, it seems sneaky)
So I don't want to phone, but I guess I could write a letter?

I am not sure if I want ds to go there alone, the other kids are much older (youngest is 10, others are all teens) and I heard from other parents that the wife isn't very nice, or was mean to his younger daughter (now 14) but I don't know her personally. I think his dad would be very nice to him though, despite being unreliable, emotionally terrified and not always very honest.

I don't think his dad would want to come to our house alone - or be allowed to. It would be easier if I had a boyfriend I think, but I might be seen as a threat (no way I'd go near him now, but I used to be a bit obsessed! )

What would you think would be a sensible plan, if I can persuade him to see his son? Is it worth it, or is it likely ds will just have his heart broken?
Ex seems happier to be a dad to other people's children rather than his own.

I'd be really grateful for any thoughts about how we should approach this - if at all.

By the way ds has me, is very close to his grandma and grandad (my side), a little brother, and has just started school for the second time!
So my mother reckons let sleeping dogs lie - but ds wants to know his dad.

Ex made it clear at the time that he had hoped I'd have found a substitute for him, to treat ds as a son - but obviously I haven't.

He still blames me for the conception I think as I didn't take precautions and he was drunk. (as usual) I think he's almost unable to see ds as his own.

And what exactly would they do, if they did meet? I can't think of anything they would naturally do as a family that ds could be part of, the others are so much older.

I would write to him, preferably email because if his wife is vindictive she could intercept the letter and you would assume he just hadnt responded.

How about the three of you meeting in a neutral place like a park?

I don't think he has email - he's a self employed decorator, doesn't know how to use a computer afaik! So would have to either write or else try and hijack him on his way to work or something (those were the days - never want a relationship like that again!)

I think it could be done, but don't want to seem sneaky, again. It could backfire. I don't think she would destroy the letter althoguh I have written in the past and it was never answered.

I don't know.

Park isn't a bad idea...but I do think he would rather I wasn't there.

Ex might be Ok about it now that ds is a bit older. Some men just can't do babies. I would write, sending a copy via email if you have his email address, and explain that ds is asking to meet him. Suggest a neutral venue and then leave it up to him.

You will have to explain to ds that you have written but that his dad might not respond as he wishes because of other commitments. Not excusing ex, but preparing ds to be disappointed. Poor lad.

I would write to him. Then your son will know that you have at least tried and in future years wont be deluded and think you tried to stop contact and throw it in your face.

If she is jealous and vindictive you can always all meet in an open place like a park or coffee shop so she can keep her distance but see you are no threat.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Can anyone think of a better place for them to do something together? Ds is into transformers, not really football or anything, and his dad likes, well - pubs
That's another reason I'd kind of like to be there iykwim!

I suggest you take this one step at a time and start by getting clear about whether YOU want DS to see his dad, and what sort of relationship you want them to have/is possible for them, and then establish whether his Dad is willing and able to commit to this.

I'm probably with your mum on this!

Herbie - not really, his parents are miles away - mine wouldn't be supportive of it anyway really

Hardplace - why do you say that? I really want to know what's the right thing to do. Do you think it is just asking for trouble?

Ex was very very unreliable and pA and would lie to me about where he was living, where h took ds etc, thus contact was awfully difficult - but things were also raw and I still loved him then, which I don't now.

I guess I want ds to know the man I loved - who was a wonderful father already, when I met him - but I don't know how realistic it is to expect ds would even see that side of him.
I think ex would probably prefer it is I cornered him one day on his way to work, and we arranged it privately - not sure, really - but he hates any sort of 'scene' and it would make it less official, for him, iyswim, less of a commitment. Less scary. So might be more chance of him actually meeting ds at all.

The time I went to their house, he told me where he was working (subtly) and I didn't twog at the time but I think he was trying to suggest I turn up there with ds. Maybe? Anyway I wondered about it and didn't bother as it seemed a bit crap, but now ds is so desperate to meet him i might consider it.

sorry twig, not twog! ds2 on my lap..

hiya flight, i remember that last year, is it a year!??

Your son must be givena chance to find out about his dad, he'll only get more persistent the oder he gets, as i have found out with my dd who is 6 going on 10 these days!!

You know that anyway.

I think the best way to go about it is to write a letter. It is not your prob if it gets intercepted. If you try to do it any other way you will just be accused of stirring or going behind his wifes back.
I think i would write a factual letter, stating what your ds has said, and make sure you say it's his words.

Tell ds that this is what you have done. I have found it is best to keep them informed of what is going on. Then it is up to your ex. You can't force him tho. Just do that and see what happens. You don't need tothink about the where's and hows atm.x

if you don't get the result you want i suggest this sentence, to tell yourslef, and your dc (as one mn'etter told me)

'It's his choice'

nothing to do with you, yuor failing, what happened before. When i told me dd it's dad's choice, how he is acting, she got angry but semed to accept after months that we couldn't do anything. I have tried to say that people have to make thier own choices, and they may be good ones or sopmetimes not good ones.

Thanks Pirate, you're kind to remember!

Have you managed it with dd, does she see her dad?

Sorry cross posts there

I know, we can only do our best. I do feel guilty already but have to just get on with it and try again for his sake.

I'll let you know what happens x

dd, different scenario obv, refuse to see her dad for months, as he'd let her down alot.

this is something that you have to be prepared for, and ride it thru. It is a huge thing, cos if your ex does meet, he will have to decide if he wants regular contact, and by what you have said he sounds like he doesn't.
STOP STOP thinking nice things about him (ex) about making it easier for him, what would be best for him. He is a grown up.

if you are going to contact your ex you have got to be storng and stick to a 'mindful' plan of how to deal with the let down, for your son's sake.

I was surprised by hardplaces response on this, you seem to be very sensibly taking the view that it is not about YOU but about your DS. I would follow through on it because then at least you can tell your DS when he is an adult that you tried your best. I would write a letter and take herbietea's suggestion.

Pisces, thanks, I think that Hardplace probably is thinking of my ds, though - I too am worried he might be in for a lot of hurt if we try and get his dad involved, against his will etc.

Piratecat - your dd sounds sensible and strong in protecting herself from being hurt again

It's awful how some men put all the responsibility onto their children to do the proper thing, when they are the grown up

The reason I'm trying to think how to placate ex is not because I really care about how hard it is forhim, but because I know from bitetr experience what a complete coward he is, and that he will avoid anything emotionally difficult at all costs - it was my standing up to him originally that led to the breakdown in visits. He could not hack being called on his behaviour.

It's that awful judgment call of whether it might be worth it for the benefit of ds knowing his father, going through all the tiptoeing around making sure we do things ex's way iyswim, to keep him interested.

That was why I didn't crawl round to where he was working, and make myself (and ds) look desperate. He knew where we lived and could have come to see us any time but chose not to. It was like that when I was seeing him years ago - he would tell me where he was and i would have to go and hang around trying to find him, it was degrading and I didn't want ds to grow up thinking that was Ok. I mean, the man is just unable to act normally. There's no reason we should have to make all the running - but he wants us to so he can say whatever happens isn't his fault.

although he m,ight have changed by now...

It is a really tricky one.
I think it is important to write the initial letter. If nothing much comes of it, or things break down in the future, I would suggest to your ex that you just write to him once a year with an update on your DS and photo. That way he knows where you are and important stages in his DSs life and it is up to him if and when he gets in touch.
If you keep a copy of everything you write you can show it to your DS when he is much older, by which time he will have worked out his father's weaknesses for himself.
You need to be open and helpful for your ex and your DS but there is a limit how involved you should get.

Hi Flightattendant. I think that at the heart of this is not whether your son wants to know his dad (of course he does), but whether his dad wants to have a real relationship with his son - is he (the ex) prepared to put in what it takes?

My kids (both boys) were 5 and 6 when I split with their dad and, despite the promises made, he (the ex) disappeared off the face of the earth (even though he lived only 2 miles away) because he was too upset/couldn't handle it blah, blah, blah. I spent a lot of time and energy trying to accommodate things so that my sons could have a relationship with their dad. I did all the running and, quite frankly, I wish I hadn't bothered because he never really established a relationship with them that had anything to do with how his sons felt or what they needed, it was all about him and what he wanted and needed. When my kids realised this they were in their teens, profoundly disappointed, and struggled big time (the daddy who frequently let them down let them down once too often and fell off his pedestal with a great big crash).

Given that a real father/son relationship wasn't on the cards (this would have been my preference, I promise you, but the man simply was and still is incapable of thinking of anyone other than himself), and with hindsight (a great thing) a clean break would have been better all round than the very unsatisfactory and exhausting compromise we ended up with, which caused much more grief and misery in the long run than there would have been if I'd dealt with it differently from the start.

I think it's great that you want your son to have a relationship with his dad, and that you are willing to do your part BUT, ultimately, it's his dad's responsibility to make it work, and to be able to give what your son wants, and I'd want to get really clear about this before doing anything more.

HTH

Thankyou Hardplace

I really see your position on this and it makes a great deal of sense.

This is absolutely what I am afraid of. The man does only think of himself - he has left other children in the past, not just ours - and I suspect he does not have the commitment or interest required to sustain a proper relationship with ds.

He would see him a couple of times and then the excuses would start.

Ds never knew him, really - was so little, and ex never lived with us - so there was no attachment to break initially, something I am eternally grateful for because I don't think ds has been too hurt by it, yet.

I am sorry about what happened with your sons, it is awful to see your children hurting. I will try and keep what you say in mind as I approach this, I have no hindsight of my own but perhaps I can borrow yours

Thankyou so much

I would write a letter and be FAR too fair, say that you know that he is very busy (!) btu that your son's future would really be shaped positively by some amount of contact with his Father.

Suggest twice a year. Even that much would give your son something to remember/look towards. Any contact better than none they do say.

I know from single parents board on rollercoaster (where there are a lot more dads) that they (the men, sorry to generalise here) seem to be able to agree to what sounds like pointlessly minimal contact to begin with, and then allow them to build it up to more visits on their terms. Basically only when they're ready. And don't push it.

Do you have a brother who could take your son to a meeting? That way the new wife would have no grounds (no reasonable grounds anyway) to object.

I don't think your own parents would be TOO upset by an agreement to meet up twice a year would they!?

I do understand though, my parents can't stand my x either. It's very hard for them to do the handovers. My x was abusive to me for years and yet my mum tolerates his presence for the children's sake, swallowing her bile while she makes the arse a cup of tea.

ps earlier, when I said 'men', I said men who had come to the single parents board on rollercoaster and said I have a child out there and I can't stand the mother and she's always hassling me and I never want to see either of them again tbh. And then all the other neutral posters would talk the git father through it until he was able to take on some contact.

What hardplace says supports this 'view' of mine that you can't lead a horse to water. If you can wangle two meetings a year out of him, and go back to your own lives in between then at least your son will have a face to the label father and it will demystify him.

Flight if I was you I would say something along the lines that DS would love to have regular contact with you but even if it is only birthdays and christmases that would be better than nothing. If he agrees to meet how about the swimming pool or soft play?