Partner wants 50% of my money

[robd]

So we have just split up.
Currently we have a £700 mortgage to pay.
Partner works part time and takes home £1000 a month net - but has potential to work almost full time and take home £1600.

She wants to move house to a nicer area with better schools so is not downsizing. Also wants to keep working part time to spend more time with son.

I take home £1700. Will be left with no house, no capital in house.
CSA website suggests £250 a month. I have offered £500 a month.
This got thrown back in my face. How will he have holidays, food etc?
So am I being a complete git for my son - who I will only see 1 day a week by not supporting him? Is my ex just spending too much?
Comments?

£800 shopping per month, YIKES!!, if you go on www.moneysavingexpert.com/ and go on the old style section they can help you cut costs, you could get your food bill down to at least £200 and cut out anything that isn't essential, I think your ex will have to cut her cloth accordingly.

I think you are both in for a shock. There is no way you can live separately on anywhere near as little you live of on together. Take the rent for example, £700. You can't rent a two bedroom apartment in a good school district for that -- let alone two of them.

I think £800 on groceries and top ups permonth is quite reasonable. I struggle to keep our groceries down to £800 a month, without top ups here and there. Now, I have three adults and two children in my house, but one of those adults lives away for half the week. But that doesn't include things like trips to the chemist or a coffee with mates.

Rob there are two separate issues here; money and contact.

I usually say avoid sols but you do need some legal advice regarding financial affairs, selling the house and splitting the proceeds etc. Try the CAB first, though you might need to pay out for a sol to ensure you don't get taken for a ride.

Regarding child maintenance do not do this through court. Maintenance issues are menat to be sorted via the CSA and not in court any more. Tell your ex to look at the CSA website. They have an online calculator there which will give her a rough idea what she could expect to get if she went through them. You have made an offer, she is not happy. To be honest I think it is too high. The CSA calculation is meant to keep your child in the lifestyle they could have expected had you remained together. Your ex will have to lower her expectations and her lifestyle to match her financial circumstances. If she can show you that her income does not meet the needs of your child then perhaps you can negotiate a different arrangement. But you should not be paying for holidays that she wants and a house that is too big. So while I think your offer is very generous I think you should look at your motivation behind it. I get the impression you are happy to leave your ex to do the 'hard' work and you pick the fun times and are paying her off to do so.

Bringing up a child is hard work. You say there are lots of single parents who work full time. Well frankly I don't know very many and I know a lot of single parents. At the lone parent group I am a member of there are about 50 adults and only 6 of us work at all and of those only 1 works full time. Of the sinle parents I know outside this group I have only found 2 who have worked full time with young children. One of those has a teenager who does the breakfast, school drop and collection and gives his younger brother his tea. The other had grandparents who fill in the before and afterschool times.

Regarding contact - I think you are plain out of order to say your ex should work full time, have to deal with all the weekly child care arrangements and that you are happy with every other weekend and half the holidays! Is that taking responsibility for your child?! Hence why I say it seems that you would rather palm off the responibility and 'pay' for doing that by being overgenerous with the maintenance.

Your job will allow a certain amount of flexibility and I'm sure you can arrange to leave school a little earlier on at least one day a week to collect your child. You can then do marking or lesson planning on the weekend you don't have your child instead.

And don't tell me you can't have flexible hours in your job but then go on to say you expect your ex to get a full time job and be able to meet the pre and after school child care arrangements and run a household on her own.

Regarding contact I think sols should be avoided at all costs. Mediation is much better. Try and keep things amicable if you can. Your child will benefit from two parents who can work together, even if they can't live together.

If you want help putting together a parenting plan then go look at the Families need fathers website or SPIG. In fact I suggest you join Fnf. I am a member myself. It is NOTHING to do with F4J and is a well respected charity. You will get good advice there but you will also get told when you are being out of order and expecting too much or avoiding your responsibilities.

As a teacher I'm sure you can help out with child care far more than half the holidays too. Don't be mislead into thinking every other weekend and half the holidays is ok because that's the 'normal' arrangement. Your child is an individual and you should bee looking at his needs, not what you think is normal or what you want.

So yes I do think your ex is asking too much financially. But I think you are avoiding your responsibilities too and justifying it to yourself by saying 'she'd miss him if I saw him more so it's ok'

Gilly

tbh living costs vary from each house hold - ie gas/eelc depends on the boiler insulations etc etc.

food etc again own tastes, but typically.

a 2 bed bungalow with new boiler/heating system (i've found personally)

gas/elec 40 each a month
rates 70 approx a month (I have 25% discount as on my own as all adults should have who live alone)
food 120 - 130 (incl dog food & nappies)
phones/internet 50
car /house insurances 50
car tax & maintenance 30
clothing 30 (what's that thou I don't have it! lol)
can't think of anything else per se dont' think.

but as I say it does depend on each house hold. obv rent isn't included in that.

Getting rough ideas of other people's outgoings is very subjective though. Costs vary depending on where you live and on what your income is. I could quite happily spend a lot more if I had it. It would be nice to get my hair cut and have clothes and a social life for example. But I can't afford it. There's also lots that need fixing in my house, but I can't afford it. I only managed to find enough money to start paying house and contents insurance 2 years ago. before that I had 7 years of worry and stress and simply chancing it. Putting food on the table was more important.

Basic living costs will include the following if your ex is working:

Rent/Mortgage
Water
Electric/Gas
TV license
phone/mobile/internet
food
insurance
car - tax/insurance/service/maintenance
travel costs - car running costs (petrol/diesel), bus/train fares
Clothes, School Uniform & shoes
Child care costs
Xmas & Birthday
Extras - after school activities, haircuts, outings etc
School costs (dinner money/activities/photo etc) Not a week goes by when school don't want money for something!

Holiday (if you can afford to put money aside for this lucky you!)
Repairs and renewals - things always need fixing or replacing.

If you then want to throw in extras such as putting money aside for pension etc then go ahead. A lot of single parents won't be having money to put aside for a holiday let alone anything above and beyond that.

I would say stop worrying about your ex's costs and start thinking about what your son needs. What he needs is love and security and two parents who put him first and a certain amount of financial security for both of his parents which will support that. He might like the latest ipod or a wii, but he doesn't actually need them.

Gilly

Oh yes forgot council tax!

Any child maintenance paid to yor exp will be disregarded for Tax Credits purposes anyway, unless that has changed very recently. Tax Credits are based on the resident parent's income, not includng maintenance paid to them. So she will be entitled to this anyway, it won't be making up any 'shortfall' in what you pay her.

FWIW, my exh earned much the same as you when we split, and I got £500 (total) per month through the CSA for our 4 dds. I think your offer is very generous.

Just been on the benefits website - it is quite amazing how much you can get through WTC and CTC. I know see what some of the Tories have said about lone parents.
But here we are and now we are going to be lone parents.
Gillybean - quite a response. To be honest, I was thinking of my son when access came up. I have a child in my class who is a suitcase kid. She brings it to school and then spends 4 days with her dad. I have always thought is is hard for her doing this - and I almost accepted the 'convention' of every other weekend and half the school holidays. My ex came from a divorced home and this is what she had. I do not want to be seen as buying them off - but ensuring that my LB has a roof and food as well as other essentials in life.
However after much reading on this board - I would like to split it during the week as much as I can. I am fortunate as I am a teacher so this does give me some flexibility and cost reductions as regards holidays.
And I think that most people should be able to live off £1800 a month. Even though life is expensive nowadays.
My LB's welfare has to come first - and we will be going to mediation because we do have lots to sort out and lots to accept.
I cannot for the life of me understand how someone could fail to support their children by giving miserly payments.

Just in case its interesting and gives you any ideas - I have friends who base access around school terms because he teaches rather than going on what's normal for other people.

The children live mostly with my friend in the term time, and have visits with their dad in the week for tea etc where he picks them up as soon as he can finish school. They stay with their mum one full weekend a month but usually go to him the others. Sometimes they stay over with their dad in the week but it isn't every week.

Then in the holidays it swaps around and they live mostly with their dad. My mate works (tons of) extra hours while she doesn't have to make childcare plans etc which allows her to work more flexibly the rest of the year (perk of her job a bit though). The children come to her more at weekends and she has them at other arranged times in the week to suit the plans they have with their dad/her working.

They get on well, which helps, and it works really well for them. They hardly need to use any childcare which saves them money and also means that time that could be spent with a parent isn't spent in an after school club because its in the 'wrong' parent's time.

(I'm very jealous of her because I WISH me and my ex could get on well enough to be each other's childcare and arrange our lives around DD like that. But he tries to sabotage my life by turning up late and/or picking arguments only on the days I'm supposed to be working, bringing her home early when I'm working from home and just generally being so much of a pain that I now only work when he has her if I have no choice and arrange for my family to have her while I work odd hours. Which wouldn't be so bad but he's unemployed so is available)

rob i'm interested what do the tories say about lone parents ?? bet its some crass statement from a jealous toff because they aren't in power and trying to drum up votes for the next election

robd, sorry to ask something clinical but were you married and if so for how long

No - not married. Been going out for 10 years, living together for 6 and owning a house for 3.

My Tory comment was based on their opinion of single mothers - not sure if it has changed - and what they can claim.

What would your son want? His parents have just split up? He's used to his Mum being around, so would he want his mum to work full time? Or would he prefer her to work part time and be there for him??

I'm not going to comment on the amoutn OP gives, but I do think that a lot of fathers are in convenient denial about what it costs to bring up a child. It's an enormous cost. Not just running the household, but childcare, education, and also loss of earnings.

It's all very well to say 'work full time!' but that isn't always realistic especially when you're a single Mum with nobody to help you in an emergency.

Also, it's not 'laziness' that keeps us out of the workplace. Personally, hand on heart I feel it is sacrafice. I would love to be marhcing up the career ladder feathering my nest for the future, especially given that I'm on my own with nobody to look out for me financially, but somebody has to put my son first, and it isn't his Dad.

It is kind of astonishing that some (not all I know) dads can hand over £500 a month and feel hard done by.

Newsmonger - his mum is only around two more days than me. She works 3 days and I work 5. So unfortunately he is one of those children who is institutionalised. Plus I get home early from work to help her at home with tea etc (which means I spend most of my evening doing teaching stuff).So don't tell me that I have not put my son first.
Plus - I didn't feel hard done by for 'handing over £500'. She seemed quite shocked that that was all I could give. Well if I am going to rent a place out and look after him on a very regular basis, that is not too bad. I am not in denial about how much a child costs. We have regularly done our bills and I know all about the costs. That is why I was surprised by the CSA calculation as it takes no account of the child - merely picks a figure from the salary. I want us both to work together to bring him up.

We should be able (hopefully) to come to an arrangement so she has him on her days off and I can pick him up from pre school after teaching.

When he is at school, that is a different kettle of fish. I do not see a problem with increasing the hours worked during the week and compressing the same hours into fewer days during holiday time. Jobs that need to be done can be done when my LB is not around or he can be taken to get clothes etc.

I want my LB to be used to having both his parents around and to ensuring both of them work together realistically to provide and care for him. Having had plenty of time to research and think today, I am now much more aware of how these things can work and what is possible.

Rob I was surprise at your opinion of the 'suitcase' child at your school. Remember that your feelings on it are exactly that, your feelings and opinion only.

My opinion is that that child is extremly lucky to have two parents who are equal and both take an equal responsibility for the bring up of their child. That child gets to see both their parents, has two equal and loving homes, and knows they are wanted and important to both their parents. I think that child would have a more secure relationship with both their parents and be happy and safe knowing they have two parents who might not live together, but love them very much.

I also think how lucky that dad is to share in a big part of the child's life and to be a real and meaningful parent to them, not a part time fun dad who is on a par with a favourite aunty or grandparent. He doesn't miss out on most of the milestones in their life or the mundane everyday things like choosing clothes or bedtime stories. He gets to help them with their homework, meet their school friends, be involved in their interests and hobbies at after school clubs, take care of them when they are sick, ensure the toothfairy visits, the list goes on...

He also doesn't come across as nothing more than a convienient babysitter when his ex simply needs child care cover. Nor does he have to grab any precious moment his ex cares to allow simply because she is the 'main' parent and he is the 'secondary' parent. Plus his child will also develop a real relationship with his own family by being able to spend significant amounts of time with their paternal relations rather than squeezing it in on the weekend visits.

I think how lucky that child's mum is to be able to get a break, to share the responsibility, to be able to juggle a job and a home more effectively and to be able to give more to her work by doing overtime from time to time etc, to earn more by being able to choose from a wider range of work options, to get 'me time', and to have more than a fair chance of a social life and finding a new partner. Also she doesn't have to worry about holiday childcare, entrusting her child to the care of strangers who jump in and out of that child's life, or worry about how to maintain a relationship with the paternal as well as maternal family.

IMO splitting the time equally is a lot more reasuring and gives real quality time both for fun and mundane stuff. It also shows the child and the world that this child has two parents and two equal homes. The child knows exactly when they will be with each parent and isn't constantly wondering if dad will show up for this visit and watching the clock and dreading the phone ringing to cancel yet again. Of wondering if they can call mum while with dad and vice versa, of wondering if they will they have to miss out on this party or activity because it's dad's weekend and he wants to see them or it's mums weekend and it's the only chance she'll have to get them new school shoes etc. Of knowing it will be two whole weeks till they see their dad again and maybe longer if they are ill or something else comes up...

SRO (shared residency orders) are something I am hugely in favour of. If two parents can put aside their differences and work towards what is best for their child then a SRO with a fairly equal split in time can work for everyone.

Remember though that SRO order doesn't necessarily mean an equal split in contact time. Please check out the SPIG and Fnf websites for lots of info on SRO, parenting plans and the like.

Gilly

I have friends that do an every other - Thur, Fri, Sat, Sunday, Monday. As the father wants to have pleanty contact not only with his three children but the school and after school activities.

Fo this father and his three children it means they get 10 days out of 28 through the four weeks - which is a good third of the time.

What works for some will not work for others, but please dont restrict yourselves to doing the norm. Your family isn't normal it is special and needs your special arrangments to work for all three of you. Remember also what works now may not work for your son as he grows up and changes.