Arguing with Ex about bedtimes - please help!

[colditz]

Ex moved out 16 months ago. Since then, he comes up 5 nights a week at teatime and stays until the children go to bed.

I finally made him stick to a set time after rowing with him about putting ds1 to bed at 6.45 - ds1 is 5 and it is TOO early.

So now he comes at 5 and leaves at 8, regardless of what time the children go to bed.

But now I have a problem with ds2's bedtme. Ds2 is 2, and is much harder work than ds1 at the moment. Exp wants to put him to bed at 6.45 and spend an hour with ds1 on his own - that's lovely in theory but in reality, all it means is that ds2 will climb out of his cot for an hour.

I can't seem to get it through ex's skull that they are not 3 and 9 months any more. We don't have a toddler and a baby, we have a toddler and a school boy, and NEITHER of them want to go to bed as soon as they have finished eating. Exp seems to be stuck in 2007, when the boys were much smaller. He still spells things out so ds1 doesn't understand what we are talking about, he still treats ds2 like he doesn't understand a word of what anyone says and just needs food and a clean bum, and he doesn't even attempt to reason with ds1, who is actually fairly reasonable now.

The children love this arrangement, and I don't find it disagreeable. I'm not prepared to cut down on contact. But I do need a way of explaining how old they are, how they have grown up since he left.

does he have them on his own (without you) at all? Just wonder if he needs to realise what you are saying himself through experience?

He comes to yours 5 nights a week and put them to bed there? Why can he not put them to bed at his own place a couple of nights a week now? And why can' he have more than a couple of hours at bedtime with them. He'd learn pretty fast if he was a hands on parent rather than a putting to bed only parent.

He has them occasionally when I go out but he never has them on his own, conscious, for long. A few hours at most. he doesn't get to see the long term effect of sending a child to bed too early or consistently underestimating their understanding.

Ds2 will sometimes go to sleep at 6.45 - he then gets up at 5.45 the next day ... but of course, exp isn't there, I am. He KNOWS ds2 will get up earlier than is healthy, just doesn't care.

He keeps saying "Ds2 always goes to bed at X o clock" etc etc, but I can't explain to him that things are different now.

I suppose I will just have to put up with it! At least he comes.

he lives in a squalid bedroom in a flatshare, that's why Gillybean.

There is nowhere for them to sleep and actually I don't think I'd let them go there.

He is a good father - when I enable him.

He does have them for the whole day occasionally, but unfortunately to leave them on their own with him, I have to go out, and I NEED to do things like housework when he has them, so I am always here. He won't take them out for the day, he says he can't afford to, but in reality he is just very selfish with his money. He doesn't have much money, he has a AOE order from the CSA because he didn't pay them for so long, and now he will only take them out to the local pub where they can all eat off the shite menu for a fiver and they can play in the ball pool. It's not my cup of tea, but the boys do love it.

Funnily enough, it's about ease of use, rather than booze - he's never been a drinker and I know he doesn't drink while he has them ... I have sneaked in on a pretext before and he has been on coke.

Not sure what to suggest - I am assuming that you have told him "ds2 goes to bed at x now, and ds1 at y".
Mine are 5.9 and 2.5 so I can see where you are coming from re the change from 18mo ago.

Yes, I have told him - he comes back with "But you said ds2 goes to bed at X time, so that's what I'm doing, I can'[t do right for fucking wrong can I? Blah blah blah...."

And I did say.

In 2007.

He really cannot wrap his head around the fact that I am not changing the rules on a whim, I am changing them because the children are changing.

He can't accept at all that the children are growing up, actually.

Especially not Ds2, who was 10 months old when he moved out.

can you use obvious examples to illustrate, i.e. well yes - and I said ds2 only has milk - but that was when he was newborn, he is 2 now.
Actually, you are probably just banging your head against a brick wall. Just keep saying, carmly, what happens now. Try explaining they are older (I am sure from your posts that you already do this) and that you aren't doing it to annoy him but because it is what the children need.
Failing everything else come on here and vent .

Do you think it's because he doesnt know what to do with them other than the routine he is familiar with?
Maybe it would help if you let the housework go for a couple of days and spend the time while he is there doing the new routine with him so he knows what happens?
Or if you dont want to actually spend the time with him, could you tell him/write down the exact routine for him? Eg instead of saying DS2 goes to bed at 7.30pm now.. say
'right tonight the new routine is... dinner at 5, then play for half an hour with calm toy such as puzzle, at 6pm run their bath and have them ready for bed at 7 then they both have stories and cuddles for half an hour and then good night at 7.30'

I have written down the routine.

6pm finish dinner, bath or playing
7pm start getting ds2 ready for bed, with a story and a beaker of milk
7.20pm Ds2 in bed. Ds1 has gametime (computer or boardgame) for 20 minutes.
7.40pm Ds1 does his reading book, has his inhalers and has supper (sandwich or cereal)
7.50pm Ds1 story and bedtime.

Ds2 settles better if you give him Iggle Piggle and tell him to be quiet and let Piggle go to sleep.
Ignore ds1's shouting about "Very bad stomach ache" unless he is actually crying, as this is a way opf delaying bedtime. Tell him to use the toilet if he feels sick (he never is).

Is that clear enough, do you think?

Should I put a disclaimer on it sayin g "This contract is subject to change at any time"?

lol at telling him Piggle needs to go to sleep, I find myself telling ds2 that the Fat Controller says to do something - he then does it quite happily.

Try talking to him about the routine at another time - at the weekend maybe, when it is not connected to what it about to, or has just happened.
Maybe agree that it is worth going through their current routine every 3/6 months as they grow and develop.

Good luck!

Gawd, you don't realise the ridiculous things you do to get them to go to sleep until you see it in black and white

this sounds like wilful refusal to credit you with any authority at all - a need in xdp to put you in the wrong and to ignore what you say and to purposely make your life difficult.

It also indicates that he isn't paying any attention to your dcs either. He can see for himself they are no longer babies yet he insists on treating them like they are.

who initiated the break - you or him? is he trying to recapture what he lost? Frankly he needs a bit of counselling IMO

Anyway, some suggestions to think about

• confront him. Tell him to wake up and smell the coffee. Establish your authority. Tell him that his insistence on his routine is a wilful refusal to face facts and is detrimental to the children's lives, and unless he faces reality you will take steps to limit his access to them because what he is doing is causing them problems eg ds2 waking early so less able to cope with the day
• take a look at what he wants - daily quality time with both his dcs and ideally some time alone with each of them (whihc is brilliant by the way) - and see if there is a different way of meeting these needs. eg can he come round less often for longer, or see ds1 alone for a couple of hours at the weekend, or something
• get a third party - health visitor, book, website - to corroborate your bed time timings and routine. eg in 'solve your child's sleep problems' by Richard Ferber the average sleep requirements for a 2 year old are 12hrs at night plus 1 hr nap daytime, and for a 5 year old is 11 hours. So if you want them both up at 7am DS1 should be asleep at 8 and DS2 at whatever time works with his nap routine

But to be honest his approach is not rational, so I am not sure that rational arguments are going to get you anywhere. I'd go for the explosion (be prepared for an explosion in return though!)

It was me who initiated the breakup, although you could say it was him on the grounds of his behavior.

He didn;t want to leave.

I have occasionally tried to re-establish who has the final say (that would be me) but I don't like to have rows with him in front of the children, and he will NOT stay here to have me telling him it's wrong to do xyz - he will just walk out. Any critisism, even tthe mildest suggestion, is treated like a full frontal attack and results in mutterings of "Always having a go, can't do anything right, mumble mumble grumble mumble"

I might have to email him.

I hate having to resort to it, but at least he can't walk out on an email.