Anybody know the effect of only seeing a father infrequently as opposed to not seeing him at all?

[greenelizabeth]

I need some information about this.

I KNOW that my children are better off only seeing him occassionally. My daughter has stopped wetting her knickers and having nightmares.

SO many studies out there prophesising doom and gloom about children without fathers.. but I would like to know how many of those one parent families were middle class or middle class. A lot of single mothers struggle with financial issues and I think poverty is the real albatross.

All these studies that say children need their fathers assume that the father is a good man. What if he's not?? Is it still better to have an angry mad father than no father??

Can anybody point me in the direction of the effect on children of seeing their father, say, 5 or 6 times a year??

My 4 are better off not seeing him at all imo, especially dd1 who is now 16

He sees them so infrequently, they get all worked up about if he will cancel/forget etc, before hand, then get stressed saying goodbye, as they never know when he will meet them again

Plus when he does turn up, he is usually stinking of booze and not entirely sober (he is an alcoholic), topped off with the reek of someone who is a very heavy smoker, as well as always trying to cause a row between myself and him

I think in some cases children are better off without a father in their lives, mine are a good example

Thanks NDTH and Lou.

Which studies have you seen that refer only to middle class people or good fathers? I'm not sure those groups were specifically targetted in the studdies were they?

Also if you are not inclined to believe the findings in these studies you refer to why would you believe any others? Or are you looking specifically for studdies that back up what you want to hear maybe? Just a thought...

I think the definition of what you consider to be a good father would probably be debated quite hotly too. We all have different opinions of what is good or ideal. If someone doesn't match up to that does that make them a bad parent? I don't think my parents were particularly good and could have handled things very differently, but that doesn't make them bad either. They had their own issues and problems which as children we didn't know about or understand. They did the best they could. Would I have been better off or happier being in care. Probably not.

Regarding your situation rather than just generalities... Are your children suffering because of contact with their father? Is that why you are wanting to know about the effect of reducing contact?

If that doesn't work would you stop the contact all together? Are you absolutely convinced that it's seeing their father that is the problem and not something else?

Have you thought of perhaps trying councelling to get to the root of what the issues might be? And I mean councelling that involves you all together and individually.

Gilly

I expressed myself badly there. I meant that a lot of the time single mothers are carrying the can for problems which are more linked to poverty, lack of education, limited opportunities, housing problems.... ALL poverty issues in my opinion.

SO for this reason I would be interested in a study which examined only the children of single mothers who were educated, not young, supported by family network and so on.

I really want to see proof that it is the being a child of a single parent that is the factor behind all the gloom and doom, or is it the issues linked and tied in with poverty.

Gillybean, their father is mad. A year after I left him, he's still convinced I was mad to leave him. He treated me like a tinker's dog for years. No offence, but you haven't a clue and I haven't the energy to go through it all over again just to convince you that I'm not the 'issue' here.

I'm so sorry greenelizabeth for how you feel it is very difficult when you are worrying about how things out of your control can affect your children. Hmm though an interesting question I guess my ds and I fit your profile.

My ds sees his dad once a year for just under a week as his dad is on the other side of the world. He left when I was 6 months pregnant - I still haven't totally got over it. And then I returned to the UK to my parents.

I used to work "in banking" and had a good salary but after it was obvious I was going to be a single mum I retrained as a teacher. I am "comfortably off" buffered by my previous career and there are loving grandparents on my side nearby who have a lot of input and on ex's side nearish who visit fairly regularly.

My ds does well at school. He has just got 3s in his yr2 SATS. His behaviour is always praised by teachers & the headmaster has spoken to my parents about how proud they must be and he is kind, happy and altruistic. He is popular being both laid-back and friendly despite being a bit sensitive. He enjoys sport and although isn't terribly competitive (apparently that is driven by paternal influence) is very active and very good at some things - not football or tennis. A bit sad on father's day though.

Basically I do watch him but can't see he is developing any differently to all his friends with two parents at home - and is much easier to live with and happier than in some cases thank goodness. I live in an area where there are several professional single mums who have moved away from difficult relationships and none of our kids are going off the rails. They all seem to be very happy and sorted from little ones to teenagers.

Being a teacher too I see that it is when the kids are torn between parents or have been exposed to lots of arguments or abuse that they tend to have the problems associated with single parents. Parents that spoil, torment or lean too much on their children can be the cause of problems too.

The most successful ways that I have seen are when father isn't there at all and the mother is either on their own (like me) or replaces the father figure completely with one person or the parents are very polite and respectful of each other and the child and then there seems to be no problems at all.

There has been an American survey done on children (boys only I think) from single parent families that specifically takes poverty out of the equation and the main finding is that there is very little difference although boys from single parent families are less likely to get divorced themselves. I read it 7ish years ago (and don't remember it very well)but will try and find it for you and post a link (off to search...)

it is the quality of the relationship which counts not the time, do they want to see him,is he a good parent to them when they are together do they keep in touch between visits

A bad father is worse than no father at all. Children can fet really confused if their father cannot be a model, or brings them shame and anger. My kids have been much more calm since they have stopped seeing their father. Even their school results improved. They feel less anxious and much more safe now. They haven´t just survived: they are better now.

This is a scientific study with 3 teen agers and a conman as their father...

My exH is an alcoholic, angry, bitter and twisted man. He has never forgiven me for having the courage to divorce him. My teenagers only see him occasionally, after he hardly ever turned up to collect them, or was drunk, and they got fed up with it. I've noticed how more mature they've become, and they're not as stressed as they used to be.
He knows there's nothing he can do. For the past 11 years, he's threatened to do all kinds of things, spread rumours about me, but has now given up, as nobody listens to him anymore.
My eldest is studying A'levels, and the younger one hopes to follow in his footsteps. I'm pleased for them. I'm also studying for a degree. My exH hates this, as he always said I wouldn't cope without him.
Financially, it's been a nightmare, as I've never received any maintenance, (exH never worked), I've been in/out of work, but, now they're older, I'm working f/t, and the future looks bright. Childcare is now available in my area, but, sadly, wasn't when mine were young. I think this is the reason for my teens wanting to do well, so they don't have to suffer financially.
I don't believe all the stories about kids with single parents do badly at school, or commit criminal offences. I've got married friends, whose kids have committed crimes, yet my kids have never done so, (thankfully.)

My DD's 1&2 only saw their dad about 3 or 4 times a year. They are friendly enough with him in his company, but really they don't have a particularly deep attachment to him. They don't contact him by phone, for example, not really ever. I think if he died tomorrow they would cry, but not much nor for long. Don't know if that helps.

That's very interesting missiemouse, about the American study.

I gave jillybean totally the wrong impression, that I want to find a study that will give me 'permission' to squeeze out my children's father.

That's not the case, he's peripheral, regardless of any study! But I WOULD like to be reassured that my children aren't destined to be burning out cars and pregnant at 14, ykwim!!!!

I should have said to Jillybean that only decent, reasonable men who can admit that they might share some of the blame will go to mediation or counselling. The angry, deluded, agressive types don't consider counselling, but if there's a problem it's all your fault for not being bullied!

Missiemouse, you sound very strong, making the decision to re-train, and then getting on with it. I bet you prefer being a teacher! I worked in a finance type co before I had children and it was a bit ho hum. Glad I'm not still there anyway!!

Mashedup, your sentence "He has never forgiven me for having the courage to divorce him". I think this is precisely what infuriates my x too.

PS missiemouse, your son sounds a lovely boy! Was it the teachers who said that the lack of competitiveness came from not having a father around?

i divorced when Ds was 3, from a violent alchoholic, Ds saw his father at his Paternal Gp's for two years every week, then his ftaher started to not turn up.

He carried ongoing to his GP's for another two years, seeing his father rarely.

Grandmother then died, so he stopped gong, and DS then didnt see his father for about 20 years (even tho, they live in the same small town)

DS is now a qualified electrician, Captain of the local rugby club, and married to a lovely girl.

riven, me too (not seeing my dad, growing up in poverty etc)

i think i have turned out ok, though i am sure some will disagree

I think a strong mother who encourages her child and has (reasonable) expectations that her child will meet their potential should be enough to counter not having a father.

I am interested in the info about competitiveness being linked to having a (Good) father around.

Now that I know that I will keep an eye out for it.

Lou33 and Riven, I'm sure you're both absolutely fine!! A friend of mine whose father was always around, but always so disinterested in her suffered a great deal. Maybe she analysed it all more than I would have done myself, but there are different types of 'absent'.

Shoshe, thanks for telling me about your son. I know it's not so unlikely that he should have turned out well but I still like to hear the good stuff. We are bombarded with gloom and never hear about men like your son who are successful and happily married.

greenelizabeth Ds hs seen his father recently, shorly after he married he met him in a pub.

He introduced his new wife to him.
His father (do I call him that?) went off on one at him, how dare he get married without tellinghim, or inviting him or his halfbrothers (who he has only met onece since they were born they are now teenagers) to the wedding.

DS very queitly and very firmly, told him that the only parent he had was me, and that the only parent he wanted at his wedding was me (although I wasnt he got married in SA, with a blessing here later).

That my DH was more of a father to him (we married when DS was 20) than he ever was.

And that the only reason he had the life he had now, was because his father had had nothing to do with his upbringing.

That would be how my x would handle it too! Instead of thinking, this could be a way back in to my child's life if I tread carefully, he would blow his chance by blaming everybody around him.

Shoshe, that's exactly what my exH would do. He always does/has blamed everyone else, it's never his fault.
When he eventually grows up, and stops having tantrums, he might realise.

Hi greenelizabeth

This is such a positive thread thank you it is really brilliant to read so many success stories! Thank you my ds is a honey - my mum says (hopefully joking) that living with a difficult female makes males more tolerant.

Of course your children are not going to be burning out cars and pregnant because you are a thoughtful loving mummy who can give them time, attention and love. An angry father who is unkind to their mother in front of them isn't going to do them any good though - he needs to respect you and care enough for them not to show his hurt/bitterness/anger in front of them. If he can't control himself he is putting himself first and not them.

About the study I can't find the original it might be somewhere on singlemothers.org from 2001/2 and they archive stuff, however Peggy Drexler www.peggydrexler.com/excerpt.htm
has published a book which has some interesting stuff in it and thinking about it am sure there is some UK stuff published as well - I'll send it through if I find it

The comment on competitiveness I think was from "Raising Boys" and was specifically about sport but am not sure. I know I stopped reading whatever it was after that - I gave it to his dad as a present. When my ds was little I read loads of stuff good and bad about bringing up boys as a single parent now I reckon if I just get on with it he will turn out OK.

My tip is avoid the Telegraph and the Mail who love to publish negative stuff about single moms and british children going off the rails.

Good luck greenelizabeth! Lovely to meet you

PS teaching is MUCH more fun than finance

Not exactly what you wanted, but there is lots of interesting stuff here:
www.jrf.org.uk/knowledge/findings/foundations/spr6108.asp.
It seems to be true that poverty is a major component of poor outcomes for children of divorced parents. Family conflict is a big factor too.

Apparently, studies do not support the theory that boys are more adversely affected by divorce than girls, I don't know if it's relevant to you greenelizabeth, but might be relevant to some of the other posters?

I put a lot of effort into making sure my ex had some sort of continuing relationship with our kids, believing (stupidly I now realise) that it was important for there to be some sort of relationship - even so, it was inconsistent, sporadic, frequently involved last-minute let-downs, and involved me doing all the running. My eldest son distanced himself in his early teens - he would get asthma everytime he went to his dad's and ONLY when he went to his dad's. My younger son took a little while longer but distanced himself after his dad let him down one time too many. I agree with the poster who said no father is better than a sh*t father and only wish I'd had the courage of my convictions years ago instead of listening to rubbish advice and wanting to be good and nice.

I do think it's important for boys to have relationships with men though, but I also think a variety of relationships is important even when there is a committed father around.

Wow, Missie & Thursday, thanks for those links, My brain is so tired now as I've just come back from a course, but tomorrow I'm going to read through everything properly and I'll look up Peggy Drexler on Amazon too.

Good tip to avoid reading the Daily Mail! You are not wrong there.

DillyTant, My brother lives closeby and he sees the children every Sunday which I'm pleased about. Also, my dd's teacher next year will be a man! She will be five going on 6, so I think it's a good age to have regular contact with a youngish man. My Dad is great with the children but he's 66.

I just want to have any info which might 'fill in the gaps'.

My DD has never had any attachment to her dad. She know who he is and sees him perhaps a dozen times at year at the most.

She is now in her teens, doing very well at school and set her sights on going to uni, she wants to be a doctor atm.

I have never had a minutes trouble with her shes a very mature, young lady with her priorities in life sussed already.

Unlike some of her friends that is from two parent families who act like little minxes. Children are who they are and one parent in their lives does not equal deliquency etc.

I will admit to not being exactly in poverty. I've always worked and she has'nt missed out on anything whilst growing up. She has had the same financial status as most of her friends with two parents. The lovely thing is that she isn't demanding either.