Court order breach

[Fajita123]

Hi everyone

Has anyone completed a c79 form for when an ex has breached a court order? Ex husband should have children eow and half holidays but has caused nothing but problems and refused to have them consistently for around 3 years. He has told them he doesnt want to stick to the court order as it will mean I will get a social life! He wants them at random times at short notice. He refuses to respond to any emails / messages I send him

It is starting to annoy me but I didn't think there was anything I could do but apparently it can be enforced through court as my court order came with an attached warning.

Thanks!

it definitely sounds like the court will be on your side but best thing is to consult a solicitor

No he won’t be forced to have them. Make them available only at the times on the court order

It can only be enforced the other way around - so if you are witholding access on his days.

Grey rock, get some ace babysitters and refuse all contact outside the court order. If he doesn't want to see them on his time he certainly won't be seeing them on yours. It is all about control op. Take some of it back.

Thank you for replies

Chatgtp told me about the c79 which is an enforcement order for situations like this. I am currently filling it out to send off on Monday. He is a complete dick and even though he does not see children on a regular basis has tried to threaten me with allsorts like having the kids living with him and tried to mention safeguarding concerns eg me taking phone off my son when he gets in trouble.

He has told the kids the court order is stupid and he has not got to listen to it!!! It is so frustrating

This.

A C79 form does not require a parent to have the children. It’s used in family court to deal with enforcement of an existing child arrangements order in terms of when a parent can have the children. Unfortunately, there is no route where you can force him to have the DC.

Dont want to force him to have them, I just want him to be punished for not sticking to the court order eg unpaid work.

Got nothing to loose I guess 🤷🏾‍♀️

Sorry if I’ve missed this, although I have just reread your posts, what do you mean by unpaid work?

Hi

The warning on the court order says 'if you do not do want the order says you may be made to do unpaid work ....'

I know he can't be forced to take them but its frustrating that there is a legally binding order that he does not stick to. He has made threats to me about safeguarding/ external authorities about concerns he has made up etc but doesnt even see them according to the court order. If I contact the court saying he is not sticking to the order he won't have a leg to stand on if he ever complains about me as he is not doing what he should be doing.

From now on he can have them according to the court order or nothing. He can't pick and choose as he does it as a form of control

They won't punish him. You're really on a hiding to nowhere I'm afraid.

The court will not - absolutely not - force a reluctant parent to see their kids. It's not in the kids' best interest to force them to see a parent that must be forced to see them.

I’m not sure where the confusion is happening. If he refuses to see the kids no court in the land can force him to do unpaid leave. A parent might be penalised if they did not let the other parent see the kids, but not the other way around.

Thank you all, I really appreciate your responses

Yes he can't be forced to take them and I actually don't want him too. Its just that he is trying to bully and threaten me while not sticking to the court order himself.......I was under the impression that he cant be forced to take them but can be sanctioned for not sticking to the order, I guess I want to teach him a lesson. Maybe im wrong, was just wondering if anybody had tried or just though cba

You can go back to court to amend the court order which might mean more child maintenance depending on the difference. The financial penalty might focus his behaviour on having kids the amount of time specified on the CAO.

By any chance did he represent himself while you paid for the CAO? This could be a ploy to get you to rack up legal bills.

Yanbu to only allow contact at the times specified by the CAO btw.

No he didn't represent himself, I did. I have already spoken to cms to change amount he pays in maintenance, its not much difference.

I just dont want him thinking he can randomly arrange contact with the children while completely ignoring the court order and threatening me and throwing 'safeguarding' around

I guess I want the court to tell him off and to have a paper trail if he ever tries anything in the future relating to the kids, I know he cant be forced to have them. Its just so draining

It is incredibly frustrating, but while he can take you to court for enforcement if you don't "make them available" at his times, you can't take him to court for enforcement if he fails to show up.

What does he have at the moment? He can't compel you to "make them available" other than when the court order says you must.

*He has made threats to me about safeguarding/ external authorities about concerns he has made up etc but doesnt even see them according to the court order"

Threatening you with safeguarding and external authorities is a form of post-separation abuse and it's not acceptable. Likewise trying to control you having a social life through ignoring the order.

Can you use one of the parenting apps to communicate with him (so there is a court approved record - screenshots of whatsapps are not approved but MyFamilyWizard and other similar are) and say no other than for the agreed times. If he persistently lets them down then apply to court for variation (change) of the order.

I actually had same situation when my ds was young. You can most definitely take him to court to enforce the order. I did exactly that , not sure why ppl saying you can't. The court cancelled the contact arrangements order as the father wouldn't not stick to or say when would see ds. The ball is in your court then as to when you agree contact. It's awful going through what you are I feel your pain.

Thank you

I think it is a bit a bit of myth that it can not be enforced and parents think there is nothing that can be done. Court orders prior to 2015 I think didnt come with a warning attached but since then there is a warning in bold that says if the court order is not followed there will be consequences. My order is 2020 so the warning is included. Prior to 2015 you have to apply to get the warning added.

Like I said I dont want to force contact but I want it on record that he is choosing to not follow the court ordered instructions. Surely if we don't follow the law there should be consequences otherwise whats the point. If he does not get any consequences I will be asking the court why not as surely he has broken the 'law'

He is a controlling narcissist who thinks he is above any and everybody and can do what he likes. Even if the courts or cafcass only ask him why he is not following the order or responding to my emails and then they cancel the order that's enough. The kids will be able to see when they are older that he made no effort when there was a court order in place

Thank you for your email

It definitely is post separation abuse Thank you for giving it a name. For the past 10 years I feel like he has been bullying me.

We only communicate through email but he purposely does not respond when I ask him about contact. He is extremely rude

I know it sounds like a technicality but what you describe is a variation of the order, not enforcement. (I appreciate you may have applied for enforcement, but what you got was variation not enforcement.)

How old are the children?

You're only obliged to "make them available" when the court order says you must, not at times of his random choosing. You'd be entirely reasonable to say that you're going to stick to the court order and nothing else. If he then doesn't see them in line with it then you can go back to court for variation on the basis that he is persistently letting them down and it's not in their best interests to be "made available" and sitting waiting for him when he isn't there. If he wants to see them at other random points then tough shit, it's not in the order.

So say for example the court order says that you have them 60% of the time, him 40%. In practice he is only having them 20% of the time and not at the points he was meant to. You can stop sending them other than on the agreed dates, and you can apply to vary the order from 60/40 to 80/20 on the basis that he's only doing 80/20 and it's not in their interests to believe he is coming for them only to be let down all the time.

That might be harder with older children who can make their own arrangements with him though.

I’d start using a parenting App (e.g. Our Family Wizard) for communication. You’ll be able to demonstrate that he’s not communicating. It’ll show that messages are being read and there being no response or not being read at all.
I’d only be making the children available under the terms of the court order.
It’s a complete pain in the backside when they try to change arrangements, it makes it impossible to make any plans at all.

Daughter 10 son 14 they both want consistency. Currently court order is eow and half holidays. It also specifies how the holidays are split. Despite him taking me to court he does not want to stick to it as he does not want to give me structure and to be able to plan my life around him having them despite him having his own life and is now remarried!

Children would like the regular structure but son can make own arrangements but daughter is too young and I feel at her age there needs to be some sort of communication between parents. I think he will try to encourage my son to step away from the court order and make his own plans to undermine my efforts but unfortunately son can see what his dad is doing

Thanks for this and your advice.

He does not cooperate or respond to anything I send so there is no chance he will download an app.

Why can't these 'men' just be normal ?!?!?

That sounds entirely reasonable. I would try just making them available for the time specified.

"I'll have them next weekend not this weekend" - "No Dave the court order says this weekend, they will be available this weekend."

"I can only do Sunday - Monday not Friday - Saturday" - "that's fine Dave the court order says I make them available Saturday and Sunday, they will be available Saturday and Sunday."

"Cancel the weekend, I'll have them Weds - Thurs instead" - "no Dave the court order says the weekend, if you can't have them then that's fine, they'll see you two weekends from now on the next agreed weekend."

"Why are you being so difficult" - "you applied for this order Dave, I'm just sticking to it"

It doesn't much help you as you can't rely on him taking them but it does mean you'll be able to show a pattern of him letting them down last minute if you do want to try to vary the order in future. In reality if you do want to vary the order then 14yo's wishes and feelings will be a really significant factor and the wishes and feelings of a 10yo not far off. 14yo is presumably coming up to public exams not far from now, so if you want to ask to vary the order so he has some stability in the run up to those and isn't constantly being messed about by his father, that would be a good reason to do so.

Our Family Wizard was court ordered for my ex 🤣🤣