Had a conversation with a friend and it got me thinking

[usgirls]

If anything happened to me, would xp automatically get custody of dd (11 months)? Because if anything did happen (I'm not planning on it btw, just been pondering) I would like dd to live with my bf and her family and so would bf. Any ideas?

Why would you not want your DD to live with her father??? Surely she has a paternal family as well as a maternal one?

Is he on the birth certificate? I think that gives him parental responsibility which would automatically give him custody if you die without making a will to the contrary (which he could contest, I imagine) - but I'm not sure.

That's what I think, but mainly bumping for someone more knowledgeable.

if he is on the birth certificate he has parental responsibility and then he would have custody.

Even if he is not on the birth certificate he could request a DNA test and would then be able to claim parental responsibility and thus custody.

And even if you specify guardians in a will it's not written in stone and biological parent would have more rights than a specifiied guardian.

Lostdad, maybe I don't like the thought of my baby living with a parent who drinks themselves into unconsciousness every night? Maybe I don't like the thought of my dd being brought up in pubs? He is great with her when he has her, but let's just say his lifestyle isn't conducive to bringing up a baby.
I would like to write a will stating I'd want dd to live with bf, but not sure if this would stand legally as he does have PR and would definitely contest it.

PR does not automatically mean a person will get custody of a child. It is one of the arguments why joint residency should be agreed rather than just PR because with only PR active dad's (and mum's) whose children do not reside with them will not automatically get custody by any means.

How much contact does he have with his child?

I'm in the same situation, my ex is permanently drunk, lives with his mother because he hasn't thought to earn a living to provide himself with a home and is utterly incapable of taking responsibility for his own life, let alone my children's lives.

I'm making strenuous efforts to stay alive.

Really Gilly? In what circumstances would the father not automatically get custody?

Automatic PR also depends on year of birth.

I need to do something to make sure my dd's father can not get his filthy mits on her should he ever get round to bumping me off anything ever happen to me.

However I think it's actually quite difficult to ensure they don't. they have every right to contest the will and will be taken seriously in court even if they do not have a reltionship with the child.

LittleBella, he sees her twice a week, but never has her overnight (on my insistence). He's not as bad as your xp sounds, but I too, make a point of trying to avoid tall blokes in black capes carrying scythes.

there would have to be a very good reason for the courts not allowing custody. And given he has contact it would be very difficult to stop him from contesting any arrangement specified in a will.

Even stopping overnight access is unlikely to remain possible once your dd gets older, again there has to be a very good reason for the courts not to allow this.

I know two people whose partners prevented overnight access to their children, and once they went to court both were allowed it once the children turned a certain age and there was nothing partner could do to prevent it.

I wonder how many of us have xp's who are alcoholics? I have the same issues and it's a nightmare.

I often worry about this too, not because Dp wouldn't be a great dad/carer for her, but because I don't want my two Dc's split up. Ds is not Dp's and doesn't have any contact with his father, and I'm not sure that Dp would want to take Ds on or that Ds would want to live with Dp, but I know that Ds wouldn't want to be separated from his sister...

www.spig.clara.net/

Look under the section on 'Shared Parenting' and then 'The arguments for shared parenting'. This is where I get my info from.

"Without such an order, if one parent dies, the child would not automatically go to live with the other parent, but would be left with whoever they were living with at the time or handed over to a guardian - a poor substitute for a natural parent. "

wannabe, I know I can't stop overnight access indefinitely (although I would dearly love to), but ideally until dd is old enough to look after herself (say, around 18 ). Xp understands my concerns and it hasn't become an issue betwen us. Yet.
Gilly, I know you advocate shared residency orders so it must work for you and your dc, but it has to be in the best interests of the child concerned and it wouldn't be for my dd. A guardian isn't neccessarily a 'poor substitute' for a natural parent, it all depends on the guuardian and the natural parent in question, surely? You just have to read through a couple of threads on here to see that!

You should write it in your will to that effect. To do that obviously you will get advice from a solicitor so they will know what needs to be said and done to make sure it happens.

PR is Parental Responsibility, not Parental Right (still can't convince my partners family that he doesn't have any rights at all ). We don't have any "rights" to our children, we have "responsibilities" and if we can't be responsible then the child has a right to live with someone who does.

Usgirls I am in favour of them when both parents want to be an active part of their child's life and feel it is in the child's best interest to keep two fully involved parents in their life wherever possible.

Every situation is differnt, but ideally two fully involved parents who put their child's welfare above all else should be aimed for I feel.

And no it doesn't work for me and my ds as his dad chooses to have nothing to do with him, we seperated while I was pregnant, and he lives on another continent even. I have been doing this completely on my own with very little support and help for over 9 years now. That doesn't mean I don't see how much better it would be for my son (and for me) to have both parents involved in his life.

Gilly

Do you really think it would be better for your son to have a father in his life who has seen fit to abandon him for nine years Gilly? How so?

Solo, I have exactly the same worry, I suspect that if I died xp would live with his parents for the extra support. However, my ds is not xp's and I would worry that xmil would treat ds very differently to dd. I would like dcs to go to my parents until ds (10 yrs older than dd) was old enough to be independant.

Yes, LuXander, my Ds is almost 10 now and Dd is 17 months. My Ds bless him said that if anything happened to me when he was 16+ that he'd take care of his little sister.
My parents would probably have them, even though they are too old to really, but then I'm quite sure that Dp would fight to get his little girl living with him. I'm at a loss as to what to do really

I think you should see a solicitor about writing your will. The solicitor should be able to advise you on the legal intricacies and how to word things if you don't want your child to automatically go to their other parent. I know my mother named one of her close friends as our guardian after my parents divorced, although obviously that was a long time ago and the law has changed since.

Usgirls if he came back now and said he wanted to be involved and showed he was willing to be an active and consistant part in his son's life then yes I would support that. I might insist we take small steps until I could see he was genuine and wasn't going to vanish off again, but I would support it because it is what my son would want.

My son asks about his dad, wants to see photos of him, tells everyone that his dad is in america when they ask where he is and got very upset when I split with my last boyfriend saying he wanted to have a dad or step dad like everyone else does and couldn't i marry him and if not why couldn't i go marry his dad instead. I have had the father not being a dad talk with him more than once and had to explain that his dad chooses not to be involved or to help us (which was very tough for me - no one likes to hurt their kids), but this doesn't stop my son wanting a dad and asking about his own father.

So I don't narrow my opinion merely based on my own circumstances.

As I said before where both parents want to be involved they should be. I've be in contact through Fnf as well as in my own life with a lot of dads (and mums for that matter) who do want to be involved and get pushed out by bitter ex's who would rather hurt their children then think of the welfare of their children. Some I think do believe they are doing the right thing, trying to protect their children from the emotional hurt they suffered maybe. And some come round after enough time, but some never do.

One guy here at my work had a false claim of dv made against him by his wife on xmas eve. He was put in a cell and only released when he agreed to accept a caution for something he didn't do! But he accepted the caution so he could see his children on xmas day as he wouldn't have been released until after the holidays otherwise. And his (now ex) wife dropped the charges the next day but he still has a caution on his record because he accepted it. All she could think about was hurting him and not what the children would feel not seeing their dad on Xmas day.

Another guy has endured years of PAS from his ex wife who tells their children they are not allowed to see their dad if his girl friend is there (they split years ago and he has been living with his new gf for a number of years and supports her and her children as if they were his own). His ex wife even told her son if he went to live with his dad she'd disown him completely and never speak to him again when he did finally try and escape her control. He stayed at her house as a result. And this same woman also told their daughter that her dad never wanted her and had said she should of been aborted. true to a point but she forgot to mention the fact that they had already seperated and when she didn't agree to the abortion he moved back with her in order to raise that family and stayed with her for several years simply because of the children and that once he became a dad he doted on his daughter and she wanted for nothing and he loved/loves her dearly. But a few words from her mother left his daughter completly devestated and refusing to see her dad right before her exams.

My last partner had to endure 2 years of the court process to see his daughter at all for no reason other than because his ex didn't like it when he got a new gf and moved on with his life so she refused to allow him any contact. She got legal aid, sacked 3 sols coz she didn't like what they were telling her, all the while he paid over the odds on maintenace and gave her a home to live in but she still dragged him through the courts at the tax payers expense and now he sees his daughter every week and has her overnight too. Luckily he could afford to pay for a good sol, many dad's can't and don't get legal aid. And why should we tax payers haveto pay for those parents who try and stop contact for no good reason at all! It gives a bad name to all those who have genuine reasons for stopping contact.

Then I have an older friend who's now adult children still won't come and visit him at his house because their mother doesn't like it and he has to visit his grandchildren in secret so his ex wife (ex of a couple of decades now) doesn't find out about it.

My own neighbour lost custody of her kids to her ex because she made contact difficult as her ex was violent towards her but the CO said that was history and she should move forward. The court decided to take a hard line with her. Her ex now dictates to her when she can see her kids, tells them mummy doesn't want to see you when in fact he told her not to come and colect them coz she can't have them and his new gf tells them that she's their mum now and screams and shouts at her and has had to have a restraining order put on her after asulting he rin front of the kids! When the court enforced an order to allow mum to see them (as her ex promised he would allow in order to get custody in teh first place) he then contacted social services and made allegations against her and her mother which had to be investigated and she couldn't see the kids for 3 months while this was done. And when she had another baby with her new partner he tried to get social services to take it away from her! Luckily social services were wise to him at this point and she has now been told that her daughter should come back to her and she should apply to court for this, but she doesn't want the children seperated so will only go back when she knows she will get them both back.

So it's not only irrisponsible dad's out there who do a runner. There are plenty of bitter, vindictive mothers (and fathers) who will stop at nothing to get their ex out of their kids lives and make life completely hell for them. And some of them never get over it, and some of them are the ones that actually left!

Yes every situation is different and no it won't work for everyone. We all know there are some bad parents out there who can not be trusted with their own children. But where there are good parents who want to be involved we should put our own feelings aside wherever it is in the best interest of the child/ren to have two actively involved parents in their life. That is a small part of why I support SRO's. We shouldn't be fighting over our children. We should be looking at what is best for them. I feel strongly that where it is best for the a SRO should be agreed.

Gilly

...and I'm one of those fathers in FNF.

There are many female members - single mothers, step mothers, sisters, aunts, cousins and very often I find myself thinking that joining would benefit a lot of people on here (female as well as male). It's about the children - not the parents.

You should see the response fathers get (from other fathers!) when one of them suggests something that isn't in the childrens' best interests.

I think it's possible for both the wishes of the parent with custody and the suitability of an alternative guardian to be taken into account if the parent with custody dies, but you should see a solicitor and make an appropirate will with the right legal advice.
I don;t live with DS' father, but we are on amicable terms and we have had a talk about what would happen if I dropped dead (DS would live with his dad but his dad would make sure he saw plenty of both my family and those of my friends he is fond of).

Gilly and lostdad, I am well aware it's about my dd and only my dd and not me or my xp. Xp sees dd and is a big part of her life, as he should be. But if I was to toddle off this mortal coil, I would rather dd lived with bf and her husband and dcs (and saw her dad, obviously) as I know she would be better off there, for the reasons I've mentioned above. Unless, of course, xp was prepared to change his lifestyle, which he isn't.

I am not disagreeing with you that if your ex is an alcoholic and not fit to look after a child full time then you should consider someone else. I am merely answering some further questions that have come up in the mean time regarding my opinion on SRO's and wasn't refering to your situation in my responses.

I infact orginally replied letting you know that PR doesn't automatically mean he would get custody. I then posted the source of that information (which happened to be the SPIG website). What you choose to do with that information is up to you. Just because I quoted that source didn't mean I was saying that you should be doing this.

A court might well ask though why if you are happy for your ex to have your daughter for contact, and he loves, has cared for, and is involved in her life, why he then shouldn't get custody. You therefore need to make your case which will be argued in your absense... bear in mind your dd's opinion will probably be given most weight. Is she old enough to understand a conversation like that and if so have you asked her about this?

Also have you even spoken to your ex about it? You might find the idea of having dd full time isn't something he could or would actually want. If you broached it in a way of 'If we weren't around any more who do you think it would be best to have dd? I am going to update my will and have been thinking [bestfriend] would be good and I think I should including this in my will'. You don't have to say if it were just you that something happened too. Bring up the conversation if you can and see what the feedback is. Then maybe get around to if it was just you that wasn't around and what he would put in his own will about it. Having that kind of conversation might make your ex take a long hard look at his life. In reality it probably won't if he is an alcoholic but it just might be the kick he needs to get some help.

Get his written consent if you possibly can that your friend would be given custody and also look into making her a guardian though if it ever came to it he could argue that it was a long time ago and things have changed. Perhaps you could include a note from your bf saying that she would ensure your ex and his family retained contact with your dd.

If you are worried that your views might not be taken into account then go an see a sol about getting it formalised and for advise on the situation generally and what you need to do for this to be as clear as possible.

I only wish I had a friend or someone I could trust to have my son if anything happened to me. You are lucky to have a problem of this kind in some ways!

Take care
gilly