Flexible Court Orders

[Felix81]

Can anyone advise how flexible court orders can be? Would ex have to commit to a fixed schedule if we went to court?

Current set-up is children are available on a Friday through to Saturday. Ex has to let me know by Wednesday what he plans for the coming weekend. Sometimes he won't see them and when he does see them he will change the return time on the Saturday, sometimes bringing them back early morning, mostly mid-morning but sometimes after lunch and on a rare occasion it'll be after tea. Sometimes he even offers to have them for 2 nights. This is purportedly to fit around his work commitments.

If he went to court would he get a court order that would continue with this set-up or would he have to commit to a routine? Set days? Set times? What if he can't commit to every week, or every other week, or whatever, due to work rotas? Can his new partner be a stand-in on his contact times? How frequently?

Court orders by definition are rarely flexible because if parents are capable of being flexible they don't get as far as court. If you're hoping a court order will force him to have them at certain times no it won't. A court order will force you to make them available at certain times but if he chooses not to avail himself of that contact he can do that. Your last question about whether his partner can stand in etc is too specific for anyone to be able to answer with any usefulness on here unfortunately.

Agree with all the above. A court order only really works for the non resident parent. The resident parent has to make the dc available. The parent isn’t obliged to pitch up.

What’s your context? I’m wondering what sits behind this question?

court orders can be 100% flexible if you choose to ignore them but they wouldn’t be written up that way. If he thinks he can take you to court to get full flexibility then he’s stuffed

And you can write up the court order (that would be my suggestion) and present it as an option. Have a think about what you would like - not just now, but in 3 years down the line too. I bet more certainty in his work rotas would suddenly materialise if he had childcare duties

for example:
currently your ex gets to pick and choose if he will / won’t come (are you even ok with this?)
a court order would be devised so that there is some certainty for you (in your arrangements and life) and for the kids (will we see Dad)
He wouldn’t automatically get every weekend, unless you offered that possibility
His new partner could look after the kids, particularly if you offered that possibility

The context is that after 10 years and a particularly bad run from him over the last few months, DD15 has decided that if he really wanted to see them, he would and if he can't be bothered then neither can she so she says she doesn't want to go again. I'm wondering if he could get a court order that would still enable him to pick and choose but forced the kids to go whenever he said he was available.

You won't get a court order for a 15 year old. How old is the youngest? No court order can force a 15 year old to see a parent they don't want to see.

Exactly. You'd be in no better position.
If he only shows up on half the weekends then only offer him every other weekend so you can make fun plans with your kids.

Oh she is 15, no way would he get a court order. Just leave it to him to invite her and she can choose if she wants to.

You don’t need a court order for a 15 year old.

If your ex took you to court then he’d be laughed at. I would tell him that if he wants to consult a legal specialist then that’s fine but it’s up to dd now.

I assume that you’re in the UK btw. Different countries have different laws.

Thanks everyone. I always get a bit panicky when the kids don't want to go. We've muddled through so far but the threat of court always seems to be looming. I was hoping to hear that a court order wouldn't suit him so glad to hear that, at 15, DD is out of the court applicable stage. Just got to get DD2 (12) there too.

What does your 12 year old want?

About that: I had a hearing last week and my DD is 14y8m. When I told the judge I can't force her to see her father, the judge asked me if I my daughter does as she please and I have no say?! Well, I said no, but in tge case where she has had bad experirnces eith the father and doesn't want to see him anymore duecto her suffering, how should I force her to? My question is: why judges verbally make that question (second time I had it), but then they go to write "the order was made by consent between parents", when actually the own judge coerced me to accept the first time?! The second time I did not fall for this. In my understanding, if I try to take my almost 15yo daughter to a contact she is long time saying she is afraid of, is emocional
abuse and physical abuse! Am I wrong on this?

12 is typically when they will take the child's views into consideration. If she also doesn't want to see him then you can probably stop making them available without repurcussion.

Just realise this is an old thread you resurrected.
Are you saying your daughter doesn't want to see her father but the judge ordered contact anyway?

Yes, back when she was 13. Now, of course the contact set in the order didn't work out and father applied for enforcement. She is nearly 15 and completely refuses to go - which I understand, given everything that happened in the past and given her voice was not heard back when she was 13

Okay so what happened in the hearing last week?

Judge questioned why I don't force her to go, as if I could and physically should, without considering her emotional wellbeing and history of abuse from father that my daughter herself described to CAFCASS. My point is: is it even right for a judge to ask that ? For a parent to force/coerce a 14-15 yo to go to contact?