Contact worries

[Newlysinglemum1]

It's a long story but basically stbxh is being investigated by police and is likely to feature on the SOR in the near future. I've stopped all contact since I found out he was being investigated but since I did that SS have decided to close their case after a couple of weeks and told stbxh its no longer their concern since there's no contact and it's up to him to seek contact via court. Meanwhile sw has told me no contact is most appropriate and they simply aren't able to do an adequate assessment until the police investigation is complete even though I passed on that he admitted his offence to me.

He's now read this as SS clearing him for contact and is asking me to facilitate this. My family think I need to arrange for his family to supervise contact or that I should do it myself but none of that seems safe or appropriate to me. I'm on a lowish income but don't qualify for legal aid whereas he will likely lose his job so he will qualify for legal aid while I'm battling legal fees nursery fees and everything else for our son. I'm really scared I'm going to end up unable to fight this due to cost. What can I do here? His offences are directly related to harm to children and ss have done their "assessment" without getting info from police,ds nursery, Dr, health visitor etc. In fact that was the first time ever they've even spoken to stbxh and only had one meeting with me. It feels like there's so many gaps it doesn't sound right? I know they're inundated right now but it just feels so off. I've been offered absolutely zero support despite asking for it.

What an awful situation.

Tell him to take you to court if he wants contact. Contact the police inspector handling the case. They, and social services, should support you in court that contact is not appropriate. Ask the social worker to confirm her advice to you in writing (that contact is inappropriate so you have written evidence).

Don't listen to him or family they are not experts and likely in denial about his offences.

Just tell him to take you to court, it will take a few months and the police investigation will be going on in that time.

I would just type and save a reply and send it everytime some one brings it up " Social Services have advised me to limit contact until his police investigation is over. I will be following their instructions. Do not ask me about this again, it is not up for discussion or debate."

I think you're right that there's an element of them being in denial. It just sticks because really I'd like my family to have my back and to support me in my decisions.

I did ask the social worker for specific guidance and they refused saying they can't give me anything because ultimately its my decision. So they've basically put it on me to fight in court before the investigation is complete and there's not enough evidence for me to have anything concrete yet. I work in an area related to child protection so am probably overtly aware of the risks but I cannot understand why I had the same social worker sitting in my living room telling me it would likely be social work supervised contact at best(and he stressed the at best bit) and now with absolutely no more information and no further investigation on their part he's saying I can't tell you that you can't arrange supervised contact it's up to you but I'd agree with your decision not to. It just seems like a u turn and my guess is its due to the waiting list but they've not been near me in months bar the one visit. So how are we even being assessed?

Your family's disapproval over the safety of your dc? No brainer surely? Dc first and the adults can get stuffed..

This.

Document everything that ss told you. Also the details of him admitting the offence to you.

Let him take you to court - will he bother? - and then explain to the court that ss advised you to go this route. Because he admitted the offence to you, you have perfectly legitimate concerns and did not feel that you could safely allow him access.

Oh don't get me wrong I'm very stubborn and I'll do what's right by ds each and every time, but I'm also hurting and this has been a horrible shock so it's even more hurtful that there's noone i care about who's there to tell me I'm doing the right thing or just recognise that this is really tough and to support me without questioning my decision not to put ds in what I see as an unsafe situation. I guess that just makes me feel quite alone. And it shocks me because to me it's a no brainer not to allow contact. It also in a way confirms all my worries about family supervised contact because to me it shows people still aren't fully connecting him with what he's done and that might not happen until it goes to court (if there is enough evidence) and they hear the full extent of it. To me the risks are just so so high.

He can only get legal aid if he's a victim of abuse I believe? Definitely put your children first and await the outcome of the police investigation.

I have been in your situation and I would mention a couple of things:

1. He won't get legal aid for custody matters - you can generally only qualify for this in civil matters if DV is involved somewhere and you are the victim.
2. Children's services stepped out in my case as my ex agreed to no contact (prior to any assessments being done). However, as part of the discharge/release paperwork it was made very clear to me that before I allowed him to have any future contact, I would have to notify Children's Services and allow them to carry out the necessary assessments. I was told that failure to do so would be considered a failure to safeguard on my part. Do you have any paperwork like this ?
3. I am currently in a legal grey area - the court will not make any orders unless they have to. As my ex did not contest residence at the time of separation, there is no order confirming I have sole care of the kids. Children's Services stepped out and released us as he agreed to no contact, so the children were no longer considered at risk. As we were married, my ex could technically turn up at the school and take them as he has PR. There is no legal protection to stop him. However, the consequence would be that a new case would be opened at Children's Services and he would be judged badly for his actions as he has previously been told no contact until the assessments were completed.
4. Children's Services will give you no definitive answers. You are responsible for any decisions you make regarding contact but if it turns out to be wrong, you will be blamed for failure to safeguard. I am sure you would anyway when your children's safety is at stake, but err on the side of caution. Guilty until proven otherwise from your perspective.
5. Note that civil courts work on a different standard of proof than criminal courts. What this means is that in a criminal court, even with a guilty plea corroborating evidence is required and the charges need to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. It is innocent until proven guilty. In civil court (i.e. a child care dispute), it is based on the balance of probabilities - ie it is enough to show he probably has done what he was accused of. I'd say you have enough evidence yourself to show he probably is a risk to children and to withhold contact until you have more information.
6. In anything you do, you have to show it is in the best interests of the children - don't allow anger or emotion to get in the way. You do not want to be made to look vindictive in court if he does challenge for contact.
7. It may well take an age for criminal charges to be brought and decided in Court. Contact arguments will be ongoing before the criminal charges are resolved and as you are not a direct victim, you will not be given all of the information relating to his charges - it is likely much worse than he is claiming. You'd probably only find out when the criminal charges are at court and evidence is heard. However, if he pleads guilty you would only hear a snapshot of the evidence in order to allow for sentencing - not the full story.
8. If an assessment is ultimately carried out by Children's Services, this will include looking at different options including indirect contact, professionally supervised contact (at a centre) or assessments on who else may be suitable to supervise (you, family etc). However, in my experience this would only kick in if you indicate that you would allow contact. Otherwise, they will wait until he takes you to Court to get involved and do these assessments.
9. Basically, it is all down to you - Children's Services will only step in at the last moment. The will let him put you through hell and take you to court before getting involved unless you say you'd allow contact. But if you say you'd allow contact, then they will judge you for it as a potential failure to safeguard.

Good luck - I truly feel for you. You are at the start of an awful journey I would not wish on anyone. It is a very lonely, guilty path. But you sound like you have your head screwed on and I am sure you will be strong enough to get through it.

Thank you this is really helpful and probably has clarified a lot of the thoughts spinning round in my head in a much better way than I was able to process them. It's such a shame that courts, police, social services etc don't work in better harmony really.

I agree with @Totallyfloored I definitely would be very cautious as you will be harshly judged for failing to safeguard the children if there is any risk.
You could apply to court for a lives with order for the children (so it is in a court order that they reside with you). Then if he contests this (which he probably will) a cafcass report will likely be ordered. They may order a section 7 or fact finding which will give you the documentation you need to say 'I'm following cafcass recommendations'. (Which will hopefully state no contact or professionally supervised contact). You need to shop around for an experienced family law solicitor. You can often get 30 minutes of free advice to begin with.

I do have a solicitor who comes very highly recommended and specialises in complex family breakdown cases which is why I chose her. She's suggesting that at the moment there's no need for me to apply for a residency order and I should wait for him to take me to court which he's apparently told the social worker he doesn't intend to. It just is so much worry. I've had to make a statement against him and it really concerns me how he or his family might react to that. I've been working very hard to keep things civil and I'm really worried than when he finds out it'll undo all of that and then who knows what way he'll look at things. I've supported people going through the family court and honestly I wish I hadn't because I've seen terrible decisions so many times I don't have very much faith in the system now.

@Newlysinglemum1 Sounds like my situation - I was told I wouldn't get a Court Order as at the time he was not contesting the kids staying with me. The Court will not intervene unless they have to and if he is not contesting anything, then they do not have to.

However, I am now in legal limbo as there is nothing stopping him from turning up and taking the kids, other than later consequences from Children's Services.

Luckily for me, he has stayed away so far, but only because I have told him in no uncertain terms that I will drag out all the details before the court and he is worried about people finding out. He pled guilty, which meant limited information came out at trial, so he was able to minimise his crimes to family, friends etc...

I do wonder how long it will last though - I suspect there will be trouble once he comes off the register in a couple of years. However, I am letting sleeping dogs lie and took the route of not provoking him by applying to Court for an order I probably wouldn't get. I've left it to him to take me to Court and so far, he hasn't.

'He pled guilty, which meant limited information came out at trial, so he was able to minimise his crimes to family, friends etc...' I can see this happening which really concerns me for allowing family supervised contact. I just don't think they've connected the dots between him and what he's done fully so I do worry about them leaving him unattended without seeing the harm if they're in the same house. Or him refusing to return ds afterwards.

If he's found guilty and is only on the SOR for a set period is it still taken account of in court when they are removed from it in terms of ruling on contact? As in would the courts still recognise that this offence took place? I just know he's minimising what he's done and having worked with SO before I don't buy it for a second but obviously my family and his don't have the same experience as I have.

Also thank you for always replying to my posts about this. I'm sure it's not easy for you but I really do appreciate the time you take to advise and it does make me feel less alone with it all.

@Newlysinglemum1 I'm not entirely sure so don't quote me on it - however my feeling is that I suspect while previous convictions will be taken into account by the Court, things like passage of time, complying with terms of the SOR and any counselling, good subsequent behaviour and showing remorse etc, are also taken into account. They'll just play the system - they are good at that.

I came to the conclusion that I would put up a fight, but in the end the Court would order contact if he took it that far and I need to be prepared for that. I'd have to try to get safeguards in place, such as supervision etc... however it was indicated to me by Children's Services that formal supervision is generally a stop gap and they move to family/friend supervision and then unsupervised contact eventually.

I think I was told that somewhere around the age of 11 my kids would likely be deemed as being old enough to understand risks and be more active in safeguarding themselves (which is ridiculous in my opinion), so contact might move to unsupervised then.

My strategy is to delay and put things off for as long as possible, make him take it to court and continue to highlight the risks he poses to my children to anyone that will listen. I was also advised by solicitors to always appear reasonable, and that I am only acting to safeguard the children and their best interests - i.e. do not show anger or upset towards him for what he has done to us or appear to be trying to punish him.

I am a couple of years down the line, but it is a very isolating thing to go through - you are even advised not to tell anyone as you can become a target for abuse yourself, people judging you etc... It is not the kind of thing most people publicise about themselves and as we are not classified as direct victims, there is no support or counselling available to us. I found a couple of people myself that had been through this, so was able to get a bit of advice. People think they know what they would do in our situation but it is not that clear cut and I had no real understanding of how hard it would be to make the decisions I have faced.

Just know it does get better and the distance between the good times and the bad times will get bigger. There are always triggers and things which will remind you, but life moves on and you will be able to get through it.

If he wants access to see his kid then he's the one that needs to file the c100 form not you..and then it goes from there..you will get a letter and you can write a position statement on all your concerns to the court ect with copies of him getting arrested for what he's done and you can also have a professional come in for supervised visits when it eventually gets to that

I agree with all of @totallyfloored advice. In terms of whether they'd take the SO crime into consideration, the judge we had said if we did the fact finding in addition to the section 7 the crime would be taken into consideration when deciding on contact. However, the fact finding would have been like a mini pre trial and my barrister felt it would give him a 'practice run' whilst not making a huge difference. We eventually decided against the fact finding and in the absence of this the judge ruled professionally supervised contact only.

However as @totallyfloored mentioned it is always ruled with a view to gradually progress to unsupervised.

Without the fact finding she said the crime could not be raised again in any future child contact proceedings and would not be taken into consideration.

In terms of worrying about his/their reaction to your statement, I was terrified too. They probably will be angry and upset as they won't want to face what hes done. However, it is the truth and it needs to be shared for them to get a full picture of what is going on. He did some awful position statements full of lies so expect that. It is a horrible position to be in but it will get much better.