You know what makes me REALLY angry?

[Alambil]

Having just seen this on another thread:

What is parental responsibility?
While the law does not define in detail what parental responsibility is, the following list sets out the key roles:

providing a home for the child
having contact with and living with the child
protecting and maintaining the child
disciplining the child
choosing and providing for the child's education
determining the religion of the child
agreeing to the child's medical treatment
naming the child and agreeing to any change of the child's name
accompanying the child outside the UK and agreeing to the child's emigration, should the issue arise
being responsible for the child's property
appointing a guardian for the child, if necessary
allowing confidential information about the child to be disclosed

I am enraged that my ex has PR but does NOT and will NOT do ANY of those things. He hasn't done them since DS was 6 months old (and even then he only did a few of them!) and will never do them again seeing as he doesn't know where we are for our own protection, yet still he has PR.

Why the fuck can he keep his PR label and screw my life up if I ever wanted to move/emigrate etc (this he would do, because he can - not because he'd not want DS away from him).... he doesn't deserve it.

I hate the family law system.

There, that feels better - as you were

LewisFan - Sorry, that was my post.

I agree it's fucked up. I think when a parent fails to do most of the "key responsibilities" they should have to go to court and fight to keep PR if they ever wish to exercise it.

My ex lost his parental responsibility because in part he did none of the above.

sorry MMH I forgot to post that you posted it

Oh no, don't worry about that - it just made me feel a bit bad as it obviously reminded you of some pretty shitty stuff - not what anyone needs at twenty to one on a Sat night/Sun morn!

oh no, didn't remind me of shitty stuff - have been thinking about it recently (been talk in the family of moving to Aussie)
and your post just made me write a post of my own lol

you are right it is not fair to Have PR and not do any of that stuff

Oh good LewisFan. Oooh Australia, always appealed but must get over my chronic fear of anything 8 legged before it would ever be an option!

The whole PR thing sucks but I can't really see what a feasible alternative would be.

If you want to emigrate, then you could apply to the court for an order allowing just that. If you tell the court that he has done none of the requirements for PR, then he really wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

If he doesn't know where you are, do you know where he is? If not, you could make "attempts" to find him and then tell the court that you can't find him, which, in itself, would inform the court that he is not carrying out his PR.

If a parent fails to exercise their responsibilities as a parent then that will likely be taken into account in any disagreement leading to court action. However if they have failed in these responsibilities because they have been excluded from the child (for whatever reason) things would be more tricky in court.

You say that your ex is excluded for safety reasons, are these reasons upheld by a court or social services? If so you will have far more ground in any dispute involving emigrating. Also in reality it is more usual for a court to allow a child to emigrate with one parent, even when the child has regular contact with the other parent from the little knowledge I have in these matters.

A parent who feels they have no option but to go to court over any issue involving their child is embarking on a long, exhausting and quite often costly excercise. I don't think he'd last teh course if relly doing it just for the sake of it.

Try and remember that PR isn't about screwing your life up. It is about responsibilities as a parent. If you feel he is failing in these and would not be interested even if he did know where you live then he is unlikely to complain about you moving abroad in reality. You say you think he would just because he could, do you think he would be willing to fork out money for legal expenses for that reason alone?

In court the judge, CAFCASS etc will look at what is best for the child/ren involved. If you have factored this in as part of your decision to move abroad you will be able to show this very easily in court, should it come to that.

Personally I think you're worrying about something that is unlikely to be an issue if your ex really has no interest in fulfilling his responsibilities as a parent. However I do not know the full story and wonder at the possibility that your ex has been trying to have a relationship with his child and has been trying to find you. If you had gone against a court order and simply 'vanished' that might be an issue here. If he is a danger to both of you then surely getting that recognised by a court would be better for your long term safety and peace of mind?

Gilly

I don't want to categorically say it never happens of course but I have never, ever heard of a man who was looking for his child after the mother either left him or he left her through his behaviour being appalling.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has. My exes both know exactly where I live, but neither of them has come within a mile of it to my knowledge for years in one case, over a year in the other.

Yet I am still nervous about moving - thinking it would be my fault for precluding them from having a fatherly relationship.

Something is wrong there.

"Try and remember that PR isn't about screwing your life up. It is about responsibilities as a parent. If you feel he is failing in these and would not be interested even if he did know where you live then he is unlikely to complain about you moving abroad in reality. You say you think he would just because he could, do you think he would be willing to fork out money for legal expenses for that reason alone?"

He'd get legal aid - he doesn't work (well, he works cash in hand). It IS about screwing my life up - he is a controlling and abusive person and would do it simply because he is allowed the control. Honestly. He took me to court for contact with DS - he NEVER showed up for the contact sessions but would repeatedly take the issue back to court. Cafcass were involved in the end and he refused to see them - they had to tell the judge they were unable to complete the advice letter thingy. I never stopped him seeing DS even though it was actually the worst thing but no, the abuse was never proved because I was too scared to go to the police. Stupid mistake on my part, but hey, that's what happens sometimes.

He honestly had NO interest in parenting DS - he didn't when he was around, other than to hurt him and me, but because he'd get legal info from his free lawyer, he'd do all in his power in court to stop me; he's done it before.

Apparently, according to the lawyer I spoke to last week, getting PR taken away is nigh on impossible. Why is that? I think there should be a time limit of a year - if you haven't done anything even slightly within the realms of PR (ie contact/maintenance) then tough shit, you get stripped of that label and the other parent gets complete autonomy.

Lewis I heart you.

Also, I would like to add that in my opinion, mothers having to deal with abusive exes due to the ridiculous access arrangements often in place, which benefit the man's sense of power and can be upheld despite protests from the actual child, are likely to be under such mental stress that this is detrimental to the wellbeing of the child who lives with them.

I was having immense panic attacks at having to see my ex for visits. I was physically ill for much of the time between visits.

How is this OK for my children? They rely on me and if I need to put a stop to controlling ex partners abusing a situation in order to maintain my basic composure and ensure those children are in a stable envronment with a well mother, I think I should be allowed to do so.

Well I would say you need to question his entitlement to legal aid in those circumstances and ask for it to be cancelled.

If he has refused to co-operate with CAFCASS and not turned up when contact has been agreed then that again will reflect badly in court. However it would be rather hard to turn up for contact if he didn't know where you are... Also if he wanted to find you he could simply apply to court for an order to disclose the whereabouts of a missing child. If this hasn't happened then I think it's likely he isn't looking for you.

As to your suggestion that PR should be cancelled, I don't think a year is a good time limit. Given that you have done a vanishing act you can't say with all honety that he has failed to see your son in that time because he is not interested. He can't see him if he doesn't know where you are.

I'm not disputing what you say about him and his actions and reasons, I am trying to see this from the view of those outside it based on facts and information available. His argument in court would be exactly that, haven't been able to see my son because i don't know where he is... Also if there is a court order in place and you are not following it that will reflect badly on you, regardless of why you are not fulfilling it.

Regarding PR, and I'm not refering to you here, but some parents do put all kind of obstacles in the way of the other parent, they try to stop contact and making things difficult or simply use their child as some kind of weapon to inflict pain on their other half and making it very difficult for them to fulfil their responsibilities as parents. Court cases can take as long as 12 months or more to be resolved. Just because a parent hasn't been able to fulfil their responsibilities within those 12 months doesn't mean they should automatically lose their PR imo.

Think of this situation, what if you became ill, something serious that required hospitalisation and invasive treatement leaving you weak and unable to take care of yourself. You would not be able to take care of your children either and they might have to go into care or be looked after by your family and friends. If that went on for 12 months should you loose your PR simply because you did not fulfill your responsibilities as a parent? No, because there were extenuating circumstances. I don't think you can have a time limit which applies to everyone regardless of the circumstances.

I can see why you are angry and wish he would go away and feel he is doing this simply to cause you aggro, but the court process would have established that and CAFCASS would have advised accordingly. Your own sol is telling you there is not sufficient grounds for him to lose his PR in this case.

For me, being a parent is something that never goes away, you are a parent regardless of the situation and circumstances. Whether you choose to fulfill or ignore your responsibilities as a parent doesn't mean they go away, you still have those responsibilities even if you can't or simply don't or won't fulfill them. I do agree that it should be very hard to remove those responsibilities from a parent, but I sympathise with yoru situation and can see why you might wish it to be different.

Gilly

ImflightbutIcantlogintoday you should find a solution where you do not have to be present at contact handovers. This might help some of your stress and anxiety. You don't need to see your ex at all. Contact centres, or friends and family members being present at handover times instead could be a solution to this.

You should definately bring this up as an issue with CAFCASS and your sol and try and look for a way around it, especially if it is having a negative effect on you and the contact.

Gilly

I haven't "done a vanishing act" actually. I was all prepared for him to know my address but then he extended his mental and physical abuse to my phone and email address. I had to change all my phone numbers (AND my parents) and my email addresses. He has a contact address for me via a mutual contact; he hasn't bothered with it though for over 2 years; before that he only ever sent snide remarks (like "If only mummy wasn't there, you would be able to see me, my precious DS...." - even though HE CHOSE to refuse contact!!

There are contact centres for contact in such cases - he refused to use one. He wouldn't admit to himself that he was an abusive and controlling man that needed supervision with a baby because he couldn't be trusted (he'd already physically assaulted DS when he was 3 months old - I wasn't taking that risk again)

I did EVERYthing to allow him contact other than put my DS in danger (which is not unreasonable, surely!)

He has himself to blame for not seeing DS. He stopped the court case when he told the judge that he "couldn't do week days because its too expensive and I can't do weekends because I work"...! When exactly did he expect to see DS?!!

I'm not AT court any more. He dropped it when he realised that he wasn't going to get DS on his own terms (because he is a dangerous man) and he realised he was losing control of ME.... when he lost that control, he lost all power and dropped the case. He has CHOSEN to not see DS for 5 years and he has CHOSEN to not pay any maintenance (I don't want his money though - it is tainted).

Anyway, I'm not going to justify myself any more - I had 2 years of that in court. He is abusive and doesn't do anything for DS (doesn't even send him a birthday card) so in my very honest opinion, he shouldn't be allowed by law to control my life to the extent that he potentially could. He isn't - but he could.... that is why I get angry.

God Lewis, he sounds like a fantasist.

Gillybean - how can you possibly justify your comments to Lewis - vanishing act??

And as for suggesting that I absent myself from handovers, I would know even less about where my child was if I had done that (hypothetical as he no longer sees his father at all - his father's choice)

It was the not knowing that did my head in (if you'll pardon the expression)

I was lied to repeatedly
I had no address or phone number for when my child was away from me

I was told he was taken to certain places - places I had been at and the father and child were not present

I wasn't coping well with the lack of reasonable information regarding a child whose father barely knew him or his needs, and who could not speak.

I know you have a strong feeling toward fathers always (or in most cases) having access...I just beg to differ that those done a huge disservice by their children's resident parents are in the majority