Single Parents

[Rocky12]

With the case of Shannon Mathews in the news I would like to discuss the issue of large families and being a single parent.

I was brought up myself by a single parent in my teenage years and it was extremely difficult for my mother as I was one of three. I know it isnt ideal and I better say that I have been married for 12 years to my husband and have two wonderful children. We both work full time and we have worked really really hard to get to the position we are in now. I can honestly say I could not bring up the two boys without my husband and certainly wouldnt choose to do it without him - so why are people doing it?

My issue is that it is now unacceptable to 'judge' people who clearly have lost the plot. Young girls who deliberately get pregnant knowing that the father will not be around and that they can rely on the state (you and I) to pay for their decisions. Shannon's mother has had 7 children by 5 different fathers. Is she mad, how did she expect to pay for them all? What has she contributed to society?

Are we really in a position now where we cannot say anything and people are allowed to do what they like? In Glasgow apparently 20% of the population will never have a job and will always be living on benefits. I though benefits were to tide you over.

I wonder if the benefits were lower or not available how our behaviour would change?

must be nice and snug under that bridge cause the troll hasn't come back

I'd be hard pressed to say that my ex didn't choose to be a single mother (albeit one that lives with her mum and dad).

The vast majority of single parents are those who were in some kind of relationship and then seperated after getting pregnant/having children, or whose partner has died.

I think there's a big difference here between girls who go all out to have a baby without being in a relationship nor intending to be while they are still living at home or are in care. In reality I doubt very many girls do this, but I'm sure there is a small minority. A lot of this is media hype blown out of all proportion I feel.

We all tend to get lumped in together though as 'single parents'.

I certainly didn't choose to be a single parent and I would far rather be in a relationship in reality. My life would undoubtably be easier and less stressful in a good, loving relationship. But I'm not going to get into just any relationship, it has to be right for me and my child.

My own son's father is one of those who decided that actually he wasn't ready to be a dad and thus he didn't need to be and vanished off leaving me to hold the baby quite literally. His own parents and wider family are horrified by his decision. However I am also fully aware that there are plenty of dad's who want to and try to stay fully involved in their children's lives after divorce or seperation. Again another side of single parenthood often brushed over by politicians and the media who seem to think most dads have little or nothing to do with their children.

I work part time, run a home, car and have very little money or time for myself and get almost no support from my parents and family. Being a single parent is tough and I wouldn't sih it on anyone. Yes I did spend those first 5 years at home on benefits, but that doesn't mean I wanted or intended to stay there. And I worked and paid my taxes before becoming a single parents, and I am doing so again now. Should I not have been entitled to benefits when I needed them simply because it was the result of me being a single parent?

Every single parent is an individual, lumping us all together is completely wrong and broad statements like those made by the OP about single parents are either extremly uniformed or designed to provoke a reaction rather than about having a serious debate imo.

Also I would like to add that a life on benefits is pretty grim. Most people on benefits are considered to be living in poverty. Rather than saying lets lower benefits to discourage single parents I am one of those who agree with those saying lets make it worthwhile for those parents on benefits to be in work.

I had to turn down a payrise at work recently because it would actually make me worse off overall, how crazy is that?!

It is only worth my while to work at all because I get help with childcare costs and because I do not have a rent or mortgage to pay. Most people do have rent or a mortgage to pay and thus there is a very thin line between them being better off working or on benefits. This is what needs to change if you want people to come off benefits.

rocky - would you extend your moralising toward single fathers?
i had no choice but to live on benefits for a long time in order to be a full time parent when my children were young and had no one else to depend on. and with a mortgage and car to run i slowly went into more debt in order to give them a decent childhood knowing that once back in work full time i could get my finances under control. now that i am i havent forgotten how hard times on benefits can be - often made worse by seemingly unending debt - and would defend many single parents who have no choice but to claim.
your remarks are pointless - unless you have to live this way you'll never understand how difficult life can be.

Rocky if you had the slightest f*ing idea how hard it was being a single parent you wouldnt post all the crap you have.

i know some mother who have "chosen" to be single mothers. in the fact it is them that have walked out on their partners cos they weren't happy. are you saying they should not have chosen to leave and should be unhappy instead?

Well I am a single parent because I had a Xmas bunk up with a drinking buddy and much to my surprise got pregnant. However, my DS sees his father at least twice a week and we sometimes spend time together as a 'family'. We consider ourselves a family; DS sees his grandparents, cousins etc on both sides regularly and his dad contributes financially as well as in terms of time. It's just that our family doesn;t feature a couple relationship between mum and dad, and dad doesn't live in the same house. And I fail to see anything wrong with that at all.

So you think we're "losing our values"?

Which values are those then?

I'm a single parent because I made a bad choice of partner, with hindsight inevitably. I was never going to make a good choice. I got insight, got out and am concentrating on ensuring that my children have a better chance of being able to make good, happy relationships than I did. I'm a much better parent because I chose to be single, than I would have been if I'd stayed in a dysfunctional relationship and continued the circle.

Oh and I'm not on benefits, I have a job, a house and a car. Tell me what Shannon Matthews mother has to do with me, troll.

i also know people who have adopted and used a sperm donor to become parents even though they were single. they don't really on benefits though - they are financially secure.

"I wonder if the benefits were lower or not available how our behaviour would change?"

tell you what then, you be in a position where your marriage breaks down and you have to have the shame and stigma of claiming, and see how you go - btw apparently an adult can survive on £59 p/w (not sure where they get that figure from) so you look into it properly without being so self righteous you will see it's not all a life of roses, and I certainly didn't choose this.

I know some women do choose it at 16, but you can not tar all of us lone parents (why pick on mothers, what's wrong with eh fathers who go around getting 6/7 women pregnant?? is that allowed as they're not 'choosing' to do it?)

for the majority of women we're doing a bloody hard job, raising our kids as best we can - and tbh our children will prob have better morals and values than yours. (not all of those form a married family btw just the OP's)

We already know how our behaviour would change, because we've already been there. In a society with no benefits, women unable to work are utterly dependent on the income their men bring home.

So they would stay in unhappy marriages and role model their unhappy relationships to their children. Their children would grow up accepting unhappiness as the norm.

Nice values.

Funny how Rocky12 hasnt posted anything back!!!

Came back to see no Rocky still..

Norty NotDoingTheHousework. You scared off poor rocky with your swearing.. even when it was in context struck out

I claimed benefits for 6 weeks in 1997 as I lost my job and needed some sort of suppot while I looked for another. At the time I was not a parent. Other than that I have not had a penny from the state except for child benefit which we all receive. I also pay a huge amount in tax. I live in private rented and pay all my own rent and bills and I work hard to do it.

My father left my mum when I was 5, my brother was 3 and my sister was 1. By the time I was 9 she'd done a 3 year degree course (which she got a distinction in) and qualified as a probation officer. She worked her guts out and by the time I was 10 she was supporting us without any help from the state bar child benefit.

I really resent the implication that single mum = benefits scrounger or bad example.

Beleive me I didn't just sit down one day and think I want to be a single mum, it would be such a great career move, I'd get a council flat and everything.

Get over yourself OP. You never know what's round the corner. Lots of people who end up as single mums don't plan on it and in many cases don't even expect it, it comes as a bolt out of the blue. I hope that if you ever find yourself needing to post on this board you get a more sympathetic hearing thanyou seem inclined to give at the moment.

Yes, I do believe that people are chosing to become single mothers. If that isnt the case where are the fathers.....

Well mine is living in the house i paid for, furnished and ran.
I left him because after 7 years of extreme violance i just couldn't put my DD through all that my DS had already had to experiance.

despite having a great job that i loved i have been left claiming benefits.
If benefits were lower or none existant then i would probably have had to remain with my ex, continued to get beaten and raped daily.

BUT i guess that the reality of single mothers on benefits isn;t what you wanted. you wanted all the daily mail grunters readers to jump in with their pitchforks opinions and tell you you are right to be such a judgmental twunt with no real evedence of you moronic rantings other than one rather bizaar case in teh media.

This has to be a research student, surely? Bloody rude to come onto a forum without any introduction and start posting contentious shit like this.

My question is Rocky, what are universities coming to if they accept such ignorant people as yourself to study sociology?

The world has gone mad.

Ah yes, those 'good old days' when there were no benefits. So the poor relied on, variously, prostitution, infanticide, abandonment of their children, oh and robbing and burgling the rich.

Now I actually think it's better for children to have contact with their fathers, with the exception of fathers who are physically or sexually abusive, or so addicted to alcohol or other substances that they are not a safe person for a child to spend time with, but most of the guff spouted about 'keeping families together' is from people who want to put women 'back in their place' and blame them for not providing sufficient sex and domestic services to men (otherwise he wouldn;t have run off, would he, if you were cooking and cleaning properly and letting him have sex on your body whenever he wanted it). The fact is that many men are hopelessly irresponsible when it comes to parenthood either too lazy to bother with contraception or subject to repeated romantic delusions about how wonderful it will be to make every new lover have My Baby (only to fuck off when the reality of nappies and crying hits home) and this is MEN'S FAULT. It is MEN'S behaviour that needs to be addressed and changed, but that would mean men giving up their priviliges and it's not going to happen in a hurry.

"My question is Rocky, what are universities coming to if they accept such ignorant people as yourself to study sociology?"

(flight)

I wonder if this is a side effect of further education becoming more and more geared to those who can afford it rather than those who deserve it lol

BTW it's great to see such a number of well respected, educated MNers posting on this thread... I wonder if troll Rocky is reading and learning.

Hear hear madamez!

to a point, madamez. Are you entirely abdicating the responsibility of the choice of women as to whom they have reproductive sex with??
What you say is true to a large part, but to place it entirely at men's door is more than a tad condescending to the woman.

Pan: no. It's just that it seems to be far more common for the men to have abandoned their children than for the women to have recklessly conceived them, yet it's always the women who get the slagging off. Everybody knows someone who's DP/DH ran off with another woman or was too violent to live with any longer, very very few people actually know a woman who just wanders around getting pregnant to get a bigger council house (and when someone claims they do it's always a neighbour's cousin or someone else about whom the speaker doesn't actually know very much).

urrr. excuse me. I am twenty five years old. I didnt choose this life but i did know from minute one i would be doing it alone. I have worked two jobs for three years to pass my driving test, get a degree, work full time and great a fantastic career and buy my house for my son. I have never claimed benefits and i work bloody hard to give my son every opportunity, and by the way i have a healthy, balanced, happy little boy so stick your post where the son doesnt shine. Being a single parent does not equate to no education, benefits or aspirations it equals bloody hard work, fantastic time management skills and the patience of a saint. so there. honestly the ignorance of some people.

i am so annoyed i have lost the ability to spell