Arguing in front of children

[NM1990]

I have a difficult relationship with my children’s Dad, I have tried my very best for them to have a relationship with him however he has let them down a lot. Wouldn’t turn up or agree to set days times etc.

He has been more consistent until recently. He refused to get them from school as agreed last week because his girlfriend messaged me and he wasn’t happy about it I got loads of abuse. Etc.

He agreed to have them last night over night for the first time this year then this morning I got a message saying they need to be dropped back early because of X, Y, Z. I said that wasn’t possible as I have plans but I can pick them up he refused. Messages went back and fourth and I did loose it with him
a bit because quite frankly I’ve had enough.

I said I could come and pick them up now if he didn’t want to have them until agreed time if not I can pick them up at agreed time. He said pick them up. Usually he just sends them to the car but he decided to come out and start screaming abuse at me in front of our children. His mum also came out and was screaming calling me a bitch etc. My 9 year old tried to run down the road because he was understandably upset and I had to try and get him in the car. I said to stop screaming/shouting in front of the kids and did not respond to what they were saying.

My children told me this evening their dad told them I’m an arsehole and when they asked why I was picking them up he said because she’s a bitch.

I also had a call from a social worker on Friday saying that their Dad had attended hospital for mental health issues and she was enquiring about their welfare. She said to call her if I needed help with anything.

I’ve also received messages saying carrying on speaking to my girlfriend and watch. Obviously implying he is going to do
something to me.

His girlfriend has messaged me a number of times and we are both happy to speak to each other which he does not like.

I’ve offered mediation etc before but I get called a weirdo for suggesting it.

I am concerned for my children’s emotional welfare as I really do not want them having to experience situations like that. I’m very upset.

I am also heavily pregnant (new partner) and do not need the stress.

Any suggestions at what to do in this situation please?

Did the social worker say what concerns they had for his mental health? For them to call you, I would think they would be suggesting that his contact needs to be supervised due to poor mental health.

I understand he has not had them overnight for a while but with that phone call, now

I wouldn't have sent them.

I told the social worker I would try and speak to him I text him about it and offered to speak on the phone. He said he was discharged from the mental health at home team and feeling okay.

Unfortunately I already did.

@NM1990 firstly , I would not let the kids dad see the kids , obviously he’s not bothered at all to deal with them , and why is he shouting in front of the children ? And swearing , MY GOD ! He sounds like a lowlife , and so does his mum , they both seem to me the same type of people , not suprised , they are family and that’s how he was brought up . Disgusting ! Obviously he doesn’t care what the kids hear or see , so why are you willing to let him see them again? And also why did you have kids with him if he’s that kind of person ? Or did he change after having the kids ? He’s a scum for acting the way he does and you have every right to remove the kids from this toxic family . Because I damn would ! Your kids will grow up thinking it’s normal and they will do the same . You need to break this toxic cycle of behaviour . 🙏🏻

@NM1990 how the fuck does his family have balls to call you a bitch when you birthed his children , disgusting it makes my blood boil !

Whatever his mental health problem are , he has to sort out himself , doesn’t mean he can be toxic around his kids and swear in front of them . He needs to grow up and learn some proper parenting !

@Ilovebees the guilt you experience as a parent when your children are desperate to see their Dad is so hard. My children obviously love their Dad and that is my reason for trying to get them to have a relationship with them.

Our eldest Son died and he became awful after that I ended the relationship shortly after because I didn’t want my children to have to live like that. That was around 4.5 years ago.

For now he definitely won’t be seeing them because I’m not going to let them be exposed to situations like that.

@Ilovebees I honestly cannot stand the ‘man’ I’ve tried to be as amicable as possible for my children’s sake but he just makes it impossible.

@NM1990 okay , I get it now , I’m soooo sorry your child died , my god this is awful ! But I understand why he’s mental health has gone down hill , it would for absolutly anyone ! But still he needs to control himself in front of the children and I really mean it ! The kids will have so much trauma and they will learn all the toxic behaviours from him and SWEARING like it’s a normal thing , which is going to end up badly for them in the long term ! I feel so sorry for them for having to listen to this arguing and toxic mess. They deserve so much better , they didn’t choose to be in the middle of this mess . But I am soo suprised at how the mum of your ex is treating you , there is no excuse for her words ! If the kids are desperate to see their dad , then fair enough , you should ofcourse let them , but you and ex need to have adult conversation without screaming , about what to and what not to say/do around the kids and you need to warn him that if he doesn’t follow your rules , he won’t see them simple as . If he loves his kids , he will change and obviously he knows you’re not asking for much , all you’re asking is for him to stop being toxic and to never use harmful words around the kids ever again ! Which nobody in this world can’t disagree with ! Kids should not hear these bad words , end of ! Your ex needs to grow up and be a normal / kind loving parent . If he wants to argue with you , then fine , but never in front of the kids , EVER !

I think there comes a time where you need to focus on yourself and the relationship you have with your children. You don't really have any control over his relationship with them. And at some point they will realise themselves that his side of their family are arseholes.

I'd call his social worker on Monday and tell them what happened and ask for their advice on contact arrangements. Put it on them.

@Ilovebees I know but after all this time you would think it could be amicable. My children and I have been through enough. I’m not claiming to be the perfect parent but I certainly try my best, I have tried to explain to him the emotional impact that certain situations have on children etc but he just doesn’t seem to understand or he does and doesn’t care. I really am or was willing to try and have an amicable co parent relationship with him for the sake of the children.

I am absolutely disgusted with his Mum to my youngest son is 5 and he said why was Nanny calling you a bitch.

@ColourByNumbers88 You’re right and I think deep down I know that I can’t make this work which is why I’ve tried to offer mediation in the past.

I will call the social worker on Monday and see if she can help.

@ColourByNumbers88 I don’t agree with you on some things , the mother can for sure have control over the relationship her kids and their dad have . They can have a normal adult conversation and agree on to stop all the toxic behaviour around the kids . It’s easy enough to do and not much to ask for . And by the time the kids are old enough to realise his family are arseholes , they will have their mental health ruined at that point so no good for them . And once it’s ruined it’s totally ruined . And also if the kids grow up with toxic father like him , they might never realise he’s an arsehole as they will think it’s totally normal way on living and that’s how you treat people in ever day life . They will know no different . Kids are like moulds , they take in everything what happens around them .

I know children have the right to a relationship with both parents unless it’s not in their best interests but when do you decided that it’s not? Today is seriously making me consider if it is in their best interest. I don’t want my children growing up with mental health/emotional issues because of their Dad.

@NM1990 if you have tried to explain to him what effects his toxicness has on the children and he still does it , it can mean 2 things .
1- he understands it’s wrong - but he totally don’t care as he doesn’t care if they grow up total bums on benefits or successful adults .
2- he doesn’t seem to understand because for him that’s entirely normal behaviour because he was brought up exactly the same way so he can’t see why it’s a problem . Sad situation really , I feel for the poor kids , and 5 year old saying bitch 😱 my god that’s awful ! How confusing for the kids ! I’d do anything to protect the kids and their mental health even if it means no contact with the dad , tough shit for the ex , he’s own fault , if he won’t change immediately . Maybe you need to tell him one more time ? And warm him ?

@NM1990 it’s a tough tough situation clearly as something as simple as telling you ex to stop the toxic stuff around the kids , and he can’t do that simple thing because he’s not normal and he can’t control himself , very sad !
and even tougher for you to stop the kids from seeing their dad if they love him very much and want to see him badly as they will grow up resenting you sooo much , and that can backfire on you .

@NM1990 but I’d be worried sick about the kids , not knowing what they hear or see at their dads house ! Clearly they have learnt to swear so straight red flag for me . And I wouldn’t want my kids to be surrounded by immature idiots like your ex and his mum who think toxic behaviour and swearing and arguing is normal in front of small kids , phewww , and who knows what other bad behaviour they are learning being there ,I’d tell them where to go if I ever saw this behaviour again !

@NM1990 and always remember that you’re an amazing mum to these kids wanting the best for them unlike their shit dad ( sorry , not sorry ) xx

@Ilovebees I warned him last week after not picking up the children from school as agreed that would be the last time. I just don’t even know what to say or do anymore I don’t think he will take accountability for his actions and yes it’s awful. So confusing for them to hear and see that.

Despite all of that I explained to them that how they behaved is not okay and that should not happen in front of children and that I am very upset about it but I told them maybe Daddy is not feeling well and needs to get some help and I know they love their Dad etc. I would never bad mouth him even after all of that. I don’t want them thinking they have to take sides etc.

@Ilovebees thank you, it doesn’t always feel like it especially when you have to make tough decisions.

You can’t make him change his behaviour. If you have tried talking to him and continues to shout in front of the kids then what else can you do.

In your situation I would assume he is going to be an unreliable waste of space and act accordingly. Don’t put yourself out chasing him to see the children.

Only discuss contact arrangements and just never get into anything with him. I
stopped replying and defending myself when my ex would message me with ranting and personal attacks and he eventually stopped contacting me.
Do your best to teach the children what is normal behaviour and what isn’t. One way is to apologise about arguing and say that shouldn’t have happened. Is it fair that you apologise and not ex… no. Kids are hurt by it and need to feel safe.

See what happens with SW on Monday about recommendations regarding continuing contact, but even if it stops right now long term it will likely continue.

I would call the social worker Monday and I would try my best for them to see him as little as possible and I would try to move away if possible to have contact to a minimum and hopefully not at all.

Have you tried blocking him so he can’t contact you by phone or text.
Only communicate via email and you control when you respond to emails.
Personally I would not send my children into that environment.
Children do not know right from wrong, they learn it. Children do not reach some magical age and understand exactly who is a decent person and who isn’t.
If they did then then bad people would not exist.
In a nutshell it sounds like your ex is a horrible person. He learnt that behaviour from those he was exposed to.
Your children will repeat this pattern too.
Your don will learn to speak to women the same way his father does.
The pattern will go on repeating itself.
Only rarely do people break away from this cycle.
That is partly due to luck and circumstance.
Anyway, you can control whether your dcs are exposed to this.
If their father really, really cares about them then he can sort himself out.

Thanks everyone for your replies, I just feel so sad for my children.

I will call the social worker in the past I have offered contact centres etc and he refused.

Eventually I let him see them again because they were desperate too however my worst nightmare would be for them to turn out anything like him.