The Ex is smacking the kids but wants more access...how can I get him to stop?

[MissGelly]

My boys are 7 and 8 now... they are not little toddlers! Last night, the boys got back from their swimming lessons and told me their father had shouted at them while getting dressed and hit them both on the bums. They were upset and embarrassed.

(I know he hits the younger one on a more regular basis because he's such a verbal child and challenges everything.)

There is no love loss between us and we battle over the boys all the time. Now he's demanding more access - currently every other weekend and half the hols (because he's retired and his girlfriend just dumped him so he wants something to do!)

He is a bully and obsessed with power. He claims he wants more access to them as I have too much influence over them and he says he wants to exert some influence now. This all stemmed because I took a book off my eldest that his father had given him. "Curious Incident of the Dog at Nighttime" - as it had the words fuk and cut in it, as well as being about a father who pitchforks a dog to death because his mother's had an affair. I didnt think it appropriate somehow, for an eight year old!

I don't mind him having more access (well I do, but I know it's good for the boys despite the 25 mile separation between the homes) but I really think they're too old to be smacked.... and there was an incident when the eldest was a screaming toddler where he crossed the line on physical abuse and that never really leaves me.

Should I try to agree to more access if he promises to stop hitting? And would this even work?

Sorry for rambling. This is my first post after lurking for sometime and i'm at the end of my wick.

How about organising mediation? It sounds like there are a few seperate related issues and you may both benefit from a `referee' to come up with something that both of you can live with.

Personally I am completely against smacking having been regularly smacked as a child right through to teenager years. It had a very negative impact on me and my relationship with my parents, which to this day is still extremely poor. My mother only stopped smacking me when I confided in a girl at school who told me if her mother hit her she'd damn well hit her back, and next time my mum smacked me I raised my hand but didn't strike her. She never smacked me again.

Your ex needs to go on a parenting course to learn better ways of disciplining all the children. Also anger management might help him by the sounds of it. Resorting to smacking is usually a sign of frustration and lack of control in the adult.

Perhaps agree to extra time only if he is willing to go on these courses. You should document the fact you have concerns over this disciplining method, write to him in a non confuntational way suggesting mediation as a way to discuss these issues and also what you need to see happen if he wants more time (parenting course and anger managemnent course). Also make it clear that if he is not willing to find alternative methods of disciplining the children you will have to reconsider the current arrangements.

Also ask him whether he intends to keep up the additional time once he finds himself another girlfriend because it's not fair on the children to be used merely as a stopfill. If he realises he has not been spending enough time and intends to keep up the level of contact despite other 'outside' interests then fine, but if he's going to drop them when something better comes along then it's probably not a good thing for them in the long term.

Gilly

I was smacked and slapped as a child, and hit with about whatever was handy for my Dad (I recall a wire hanger incident that was particularly unpleasant).. But the Ex was as well - he had a horrible bully of a father. And Ex always resented his father for this - so it's mindboggling to me that he is just caught in a cycle...he considers himself the biggest, fairminded Liberal about (and is even an ex-JP!).

Up until last week, he had informed me he was moving down to Devon, two hours away, to move in with girlfriend. Then all of a sudden, he announces he wants more access and control....ugly shouting match ensued.

I know the boys love him, but they don't like being hit and they often speak of how he shouts. He's one of these people who never disciplines or tells them off - until he's had enough and blows like a volcano... So they have no boudaries with him - but just wait the inevitable explosion.

How does one go about seeking mediation?

Family mediation search on google.

How do the boys feel? Do they want to see more of him?

The boys are learning bad habits from him and that is what I would be afraid of. My kids have all been hit by my X and one has been assaulted for which he faced potential criminal charges. Every time he hits them I call the police now.

My kids need to know it is not right to hit and that action will be taken against an adult who does so. If your boys object to being hit then to me that is abuse.

The issue of waiting for an explosion is bound to make them feel scared and vulnerable and means they are living in a world of uncertainty about boundaries and behaviour. This is not good for them.

I would certainly get my solicitor to write to him and also say that if it happens again and the boys are hurt you will call the police. Make sure he knows it must stop and use the services available for these situations.

Google NFM (National Family Mediation) they're a nationwide organisation that uses professional mediators.

Regarding solicitors - personally I wouldn't advise going to them as a first step. Legal action should be the last resort, not the first. No one comes out of a situation involving solicitors better off than they went in, apart from the solicitors of course who will be charging you at around £170 per hour.

The make or break of using a solicitor shouldn't be about whether you have to pay for it or not. It should be whether it is appropriate.

As for `knowing the system'...remember your solicitor's next client is likely a father who you may well consider be taking his ex to court to bully or attempt to control her.

Solicitors have no one's interests at heart except their own. I'd say again: Solicitors should be a last resort, not a first one.

But you are right...it takes both people to talk rationally and compromise. It is always worth trying.

Having spent two years fighting in the courts I agree that court is a last resort but a stiff letter from a solicitor can deter some behaviours. I did not go to mediation because my x was also violent towards me but wish I had been able to.

Solicitors advice is usually worth while as well and they normally dont charge for a first interview.

The problem with not doing anything in these circumstances is that courts think you should be protecting the children if you object to the behaviour. That means dealing with it in a robust way and ensuring the kids are protected.

Thank you all for the advice and i've done some lengthy research on Family Mediation Services. I'd rather start with that as the Ex is now retired and would do anything to avoid solicitors (though he's quite happy to threaten it... often!)

The boys do want to see him and spend time with him - though not necessarily more often than they are now. But they don't like being smacked.

I'm going to write him a letter, stating that I want a written statement from him that the smacking stops NOW. If he refuses, then i'll be advising the Mediation route and if that fails, then a solicitor.

That's an excellent point, Glitterfairy, about the boys learning this horrible behaviour and doing it themselves and one that might get thru to him. He really is a big liberal who's worked in education all his life. But I dont think he ever smacked any of his students!

Have your boys told him they don't like being smacked? MAybe he will listen more if it actually comes from them. They are old enough I'd think to explain their feelings to their dad, or even just say "Don't smack me!" when he actually does it.

FWIW I'd never let my DS anywhere near anyone who used physical violence on him, but them I'm not in your situation so it's not really relevant.

The problem is though that sometimes you cant stop it and the courts will insist on dads getting to see their kids. I would never want to be seen to be preventing my kids from making their own decisions and also from seeing their dad if they wanted to.

If the kids want to see their dad everything should be done to support that.

Lostdad, I don't really see why the solicitors potential next client is at all relevant to MissGelly's situation, or why she should give it a moment's thought.

I agree glitterfairy. My gut instinct would still be to protect my DS from any physical violence, but in the OP's situation obviously she shouldn't stop him seeing them, that's not what she wants or what her DSs want.

If I told my sons to say that, he would only accuse me of feeding them what to say. Its happened before when he did a disappearing act for a while with new girlfriend, and the eldest confronted him only for me to be told I was the one manipulating what they were to say.

I also think they might be afraid to confront their Dad on something as serious as smacking. They know it's wrong to do and I always intervene when they start to scrap with each other. But I think for them, there's an element of uncertainty with how he's going to react to any situation.

This is where mediation would be helpful. The children could come along and express their opinions too and the mediator could help dad see that this is the children talking and their feelings, not mum talking voa the children

The problem I have found though gillybean is mediators who will allow kids as well.

There are none in my area.

My x says I emotionally abuse my kids gelly and put words in their mouth it is a neat way of ignoring what the kids say. Even after court exhaustive intervention from courts and social services he still says it but I just ignore it now. I do agree that they are too young and actually it is not their job to stop their father punishing them.