5yo keeps saying she doesn't want to live with me.

[Lafoosa]

My kids went to stay with their dad for the first time in ages recently. Ever since she got home my 5yo won't stop saying she doesn't like me, doesn't want to live with me and she just wants to live with her dad.

What do I even do in this situation? He's practically deadbeat, it was the first time in months he had them over and he maybe only calls them once a month.

I don't think she's old enough to make that kind of decision, and it obviously really hurts her continuously saying she doesn't like me anymore and doesn't want to live with me.

How do I handle this? I offered him 50/50, he said no, and I offered him 75/25 and he said no to that too. He doesn't even plan to see them over Christmas or my middle child's birthday in Dec.

I've asked her why she feels that way and she just says she doesn't want me anymore and doesn't really elaborate further than that.

Do I get her therapy to work through whatever this is? Do I send her to live with her dad (this isn't really an option, he's the most incompetent person ever).

If people are just going to be horrible then please don't bother commenting.

How long since she last saw him? How long was she there for?

Kids do this sort of thing all the time, she will be anxious to please him and knows you are safe and reliable. Perhaps a chat with the pastoral team at her school, they’ll have seen this sort of thing before.

She's just pushing to make sure that you won't leave her like her deadbeat horrible father did. That, and a mix of kids say random crap they don't mean.

You are her safe person, just try to let it wash over you and don't react and am sure she will move on soon enough. I would acknowledge it with mmm, okay and then distract/move on and change the subject. It could be something as simple as he fed her utter shite and she wants unlimited sweets etc again.

Maybe therapy is a good idea but in itself I wouldn't give too much heed to it. I would probably just not bother contacting him if he's going to be such an inconsistent presence in her life though.

Have you told him she’s saying this? Any chance you could all get together in a room and explain (a pre-agreed convo) that you both love her very much but for now her home is with you because (whatever reason)?

How unreliable is he? Any chance he told her he’d love to have her live with him but mummy won’t let him? 😡

@Mamette
He's incredibly unreliable. Moved 3 hours away back into his dad's house, doesn't drive, refuses to get trains because I drive and has only seen the children twice in the last 5 months. (once for 24 hours and once for a few days). The most recent time was a couple of weeks ago and it was mostly just them doing crafts, tv and having unlimited squash and junk (I don't really allow squash because it sends them loopy and incredibly hyper, and that much sugar usually makes my 3yo turn into a little demon).

Getting everyone in the same room isn't really possible unless I take another 6hr round trip which for the sake of one conversation I'd rather not. I could try and arrange a WhatsApp video chat, but he's also very unreasonable there and doesn't respond to messages from me.
I tried asking him to be more consistent after the 24hr time he had them, but he hasn't. My 3yo has started bed wetting again since that too, she had been dry for a year previously.

He could've said that, but I've got no way of knowing for sure.

She's upset. He will have just played th fun one with junk food and she thinks it will be fun.

I agree with a previous post that seeing her dad has probably made her feel (maybe unconsciously) really insecure and is pushing boundaries with you as you're safe.
Every time she says it just remind her that you'll always love her no matter what and will always be there for her no matter what.

Five year olds say all kinds of things, pretty sure it means nothing. I'd be wary of lending it substance with any action at all. Especially since the Father clearly isn't going to have her to live with him.

Just carry on as before.

I wouldn't even think of letting her live with him. All this has clearly left her feeling very insecure. If you can get counselling I would get it for yourself so that you can talk through how to respond when she says things like that. The poor girl, though, she's probably been love bombed and then discarded and doesn't know which way is up.

If I were you I would leave the ball in his court as far as visits are concerned. The fact your 3 year old is wetting herself now is very telling that she's not happy.

Another agreeing with this.
I feel for you, its always a horrible thing to hear. She doesn't mean it.

Your children need therapy. Bedwetting is serious, and so are the persistent comments of the older child.

Like a pp, I'd be concerned that this man had told them you weren't letting him see them.

See if you can find a play therapist. It's a good form of therapy for getting children to reveal their experiences and feelings.

I'd also consider making a complete break. There are worse things than having no father in their lives, one of which is sporadic and unpredictable contact with a father who has no moral compass or interest in being an adult.

Is she in school op? Might be worth speaking to her teacher and let them know she's feeling a bit wobbly as they can often help with support etc in these circumstances and it might help tease out where this has come from.

I certainly wouldn't be packing her off to her dad's on the strength of one comment and agree with pp that it's most likely an emotional reaction - in any case if he doesn't even want her 75/25 he's never going to want her full time is he?

I'm sorry op I know it's heartbreaking to hear words like that but if it's any consolation mine use to occasionally say similar but once they saw him for who he was they stopped.

This is 100% classic "I feel rejected and insecure about dad, so I will align myself to him to secure his affection and reject the secure relationship with mum to test that". It is not your fault, your child does not really mean it, and unfortunately if their dad continues to be useless, it'll likely happen on and off in some form.

Your younger one bed wetting is also expressing upset and insecurity in change.

Every time she says it, just say some version of well I love you very much and want you living home with me. If she repeats but I don't want to live with you just disengage and redirect "oh well, is this a picture you made at school?". "I don't like you" "well I like and love you". Do not let it upset you in front of them.

What you want to communicate is 1) I am emotionally stable 2) you can trust me 3) I love you unconditionally.

They would not actually benefit from spending more time with him if he cannot provide practical or emotional stability and reliance. What will most benefit her is being absolutely sure of your love, consistent boundaries, structure and routine. If they continue to see their dad this should ideally have a standard time she is at dads, even if that's once a month.

Does their dad actually want to see them?

God I'd missed the bedwetting - yes a play therapist could be a good shout

She is testing your reactions. If you react calmly she will stop soon enough.
If she can tell she is panicking you, she will (subconsciously) test you further.
Just answer calmly and kindly and move the conversation on.

He probably let her do whatever she liked now she now's she's back at Mums and there are rules.

My son does this and his dad is more reliable than your ex and has LO most weekends. BUT I know it's because Daddy left and he's worried about when he will see him again whereas he knows he needn't worry because I won't disappear, I'm the constant, the safe place. He cries for his dad all the time and wants to live there/go there all the time, it hurts and I think why do I bother but then I remember why.

You're the constant.
You're the safe space.
You're not going to disappear.
🌼😊

@IWillBeWaxingAnOwl

I'm not sure if he actually wants to see them, he tells everyone else he does but he was also incredibly emotionally manipulative to me when we were together and he's very good at making himself sound great while not actually holding up. His actions say he doesn't though, he puts in the absolute bare minimum effort and the only reason they even did any activities when with him is because he lives with his dad and his dad put together loads of craft activities for them.

I try to talk it out with them but I just don't know if I'm saying or doing the right things. I try to say the things I wish my dad had said when my mum walked out on us. Just the usual things of it's okay to be upset about it, and they can talk about how they're feeling if they want to. I've tried to implement breathing exercises for them to help them regulate when they're particularly upset which works about 70% of the time.
I actually home educate, but that decision was one made because their dad said he couldn't see them because he works weekends and lives too far away from school. Home ed is actually going well, but I do think after Christmas I'll be putting them in school so they have better access to different support they need as I'm not really well off enough to pay for private therapy for them.

If I were to stop letting them go to their dad's house do I just wait until he naturally stops contact all together? I don't think that would take that long, almost all of his contact was organised by me and even then it was very difficult. His dad is the kind of person that would absolutely try and take me to court, although he wouldn't really have anything to say against me apart from previous MH issues, which were caused by being with him and are mostly resolving now.

Or should I just say that they won't be coming if he asks (which is unlikely).

It sounds if you let it peter out he'll just not bother his arse. I would do that rather than force anything by discussing court/contact/saying they're not coming. My lawyer advised me to do the same and ex husband has not seen my son in over 10 years - she said emotionally abusive men are in it for the abuse and if you just don't engage in any way they don't bother with contact sometimes.

Definitely put them back to school, good luck.

You give her a big hug and say confidently “No, no, your home is here with Mummy until you are a very big girl with your own house” and keep saying it. “Our family is you and me and we live together in our house. When you see Daddy for a visit that’s nice, but then you come home to our house” Make jokes, be breezy, but always reassuring that your home is her home.

No she isn’t old enough to make a decision, and living any % with him is a bad idea. Don’t be so insecure in your own parenting to take this as a serious proposition.

I am generally in agreement with others .

you need to take the emotion out of it . young children say very random things . We tend to mostly laugh and carry . Because of issues with her dad you suddenly treat it like a bigger issue - she gets big response so repeats .

yes I would stop contacting - encouraging contact . Let him chase if he wants to see them .

Put them in school. And do the Freedom Programme. Home educating in response to his needs, which he never actually wanted to fulfil, was quite an extreme self-imposed constraint on you, due to the abuse and manipulation.

I am really sorry your Mum left you, the scars run deep.

He's processing something that's for sure. Keep asking him questions in a casual manner to get him to talk to you. Articulating feelings is not a 5yo's strong point so just keep trying. If he plays with figures, play with him. When my DD was that age she would act out what she was feeling in her doll's play and that was how I knew what was going on with her. Just show him you're open to whatever is going on, don't project your feelings onto him. Try to distract him with fun things like making holiday treats, crafts, etc. Most likely you being there for him through this will be the biggest help.