Moving from Singapore to London

[EasyDad]

Hi
I have a three-year-old who lives in Singapore with her mum. We are very much still together as a family (not separated). I moved to London in 2022 to pursue a master's degree in a top university and then found a promising job in the civil service. For all the bad press the UK government has recently, it still has been progressing in sustainability and it feels like the right place to be working. One of the things motivating me on this journey is my little one.

However, this meant being away from my family. Considering the cost of living in the UK alongside the unsteady political climate here, it didn't make sense for me to move them from Singapore where my little one has a set routine, friends and family around, and my wife has a well-paid job. Instead, I thought I would continue here in London and gain experience working in government. The UK civil service does not allow me to wfh from Singapore.

However, I miss them terribly and don't think being away from my daughter is sustainable any more. But moving back to Singapore would mean giving away the promising start I have made in the UK towards public life and working in non-sensitive roles in the Singapore government. They only allow Permanent Residents/Citizens to work in central roles in their government, and it would take considerable time for us as a family to get there. The move would undermine the very reason I came to UK in the first place to be able to make a difference as a public servant.

Has anyone made such a life/career decision previously and could share learnings? I know deadlocks need compromises to progress but I want to make one that is substantiated by solid reason.

Have you explored role options in the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office and the Department for Business and Trade?

You haven't said anything about what your partner wants to do.

Good question CarpetLady. She wants to do whats best for our LO. Since Singapore has the blessings of great weather and domestic help, our LO has a considerably full-on routine there. Plus she has just started going to nursery and is enjoying it immensely. My wife feels overwhelmed by the change a move to London will bring to not just for our LO, but also her career.

That is up my sleeve to explore but a bit too soon to check as I have just joined the public service (less than a month)

What citizenship do you each have?

What level of role do you currently have in the uk civil service?

Diplomatic role? Worth exploring.

Your wife is correct that she won't be able to afford the level of domestic help but that cheap help in Singapore reflects the poverty conditions of migrant workers, often living away from their family for a year at time, hardly ethical.

What sort of career does she have ? Is her career adaptable location wise?
I think ultimately at such a young age it's better to be together as a family than apart so I'd say you need to find a way to do that. The little one is fine she'll adapt to nursery etc in whichever country so it's really down to you both.
I'd be factoring where your family support is (if you have any) and how "re startable" your respective careers would be if you took a step back or a break. You can try UK and then move back to Singapore in a few years time too if it didn't work out?

I’m a mother with a full time career. Your wife will have her career majorly impacted if she and your child move to London. I have remained out of the UK because I need domestic help and it’s extremely expensive in the UK with more and more onerous rules all paid for from post tax income.

There isn’t a government job where you can afford £60-70k for a nanny and housekeeper and this is entry level costs for the type of help your wife currently has. People in civil servant roles would normally have grandparents doing a lot of the work if both parents work.

There is the possibility of having an au pair but childcare is the reason why most mothers go part time. It’s a major problem in the UK.

You are clearly a man with good intentions, but you are trying to make two incompatible worlds mesh together. Your desired career is incompatible with the employment criteria of where you want to live. Public service roles and ‘full time domestic help’ have been incompatible in the UK for the best part of a century. The lifestyle of where you want to live (with your public service ideals) is built on a market economy where those providing the services are very vulnerable to exploitation, as already pointed out on this thread.

I don’t judge you for any of this, as I’m a public service believer myself, but you need to live in the right kind of economy for things to be congruent in your life.

The obvious answer seems to be to move to the UK and support your wife to continue her career, but accept that you will be doing the majority of the household labour yourselves.

There's no such things as 'solid reason' here OP only what you both find acceptable. But what I find strange is that neither of you are Singaporean citizens. I presume you're a British citizen as the Civil Service doesn't sponsor visas. The BoE and the FCA do.

Ultimately your wife will either have to earn a 6 figure salary or give up her career if she wants to maintain the same lifestyle in London. I know many people from Malaysia (I'm Malaysian), India etc who moved back home for the same reason. Domestic help where we're from is cheap and flexible (although the moral implications are questionable).

However, if you as a family plan to stay in Singapore long-term you'll need some form of PR. What if she loses her job for example? Also if she leaves she might be unable to return. Neither would you! As you'd nee to find a job first.

For that reason the best thing is for you to get sent to Singapore by the UK government if you are intent on a career in 'public service'. Any other way, you or your wife have to give up your career dreams. This way you get what you both want but at the expense of living together as a family.

That can be.

All the messages here are very helpful so a big thank you. I am quite hands-on with errands and taking care of the LO. I plan to send her to a nursery if she moves to London. That way both me and my wife can work and share responsibilities

My wife's career may take a hit but considering her employer has given her options to relocate here while maintaining her position, she should be able to rebound quickly (I have made career restart/compromises previously as well)

However, we are concerned about whether this is the right time to make that move to London considering the costs of living and energy prices. I keep thinking that we should wait a few years for inflation to come down and then make that move.

(On the helper front, I know that its a structurally unfair system and won't justify its existence. However, we treat her with respect and as our family member from all aspects and have time and again encouraged her to visit home)

The only problem with waiting a few years is that you are then into finding a school too, which is heavily dependent on your address and you can’t apply for a state school from overseas (apart from certain Crown servants).

Have you looked at the cost of nursery? Not just that, wraparound care, unless you can leave work on the dot. Rents are high too, although living in Singapore you might be happy with a small flat.

You've got to run the actual numbers. Cost of living/energy is one thing but your main costs rent and household help isn't going to drop. You'll need less childcare when kid's at school though.

FWIW as much as people complain about 'work-life balance' the UK is much better than Singapore. You may not get promoted as quickly by going PT, but it depends on the firm and team. Many large firms especially are making an effort to retain top female talent and you have the right to request flexible working by law. Even as a man the CS is good for flexible working.

In Singapore even the very idea of working 9-5 doesn't exist. 12 hour days are the norm. People get around it with parental help or cheap domestic labour as discussed.

In the end it sort of evens out.

Make no mistake, if you want to progress your career you are working 12 hour days no matter where you are in the world.

The UK thing of working part time is an absolute career killer. I’m in my mid 40s and the women who went part time in their mid to late 30s are at the same level whereas I’ve had 2 promotions during this time. Each promotion individually were small but collectively they were significant. I went from mid mgmt to junior leadership.

Getting promoted later isn't the same as not getting promoted at all. So's flexible working. If you need X hours of Y experience to get promoted of course you're going to get there slower part-time. Apart from that, many people never make it past middle management, so to support your anecdotal evidence you'd have to prove that all the women who did stay FT got promoted, just like you did.

In Singapore 12 hour days are not needed to 'progress your career' they are needed to keep your job full stop. Especially if you're a foreigner on a work visa. Also a lot of presentism even if you are very efficient and finish work early you'll have to stay late or be seen as a slacker. Granted, the UK probably has this too in some environments.

You also can't do things like work later to make up for collecting the kids, or stopping to make dinner. In the UK it's acceptable to take a break and then carry on working, many people log back on after the kids are asleep.

Again not denying that the mummy track, being seen as less committed isn't a thing but you can make up for it. Having that on your CV in Singapore (except for very progressive companies) will set you back for the next few decades.

Why is this in Lone Parents?