Collect and pay vs private arrangement

BLOOMINTIRED · 2023-10-09T16:42:27+00:00

Evening all. It seems I've had a rare CMS experience, when I applied we were put straight on Collect and Pay. A few months later he asked if we could change to a private arrangment, cutting the payment by 1/3. I refused this request. Now that the annual review has come around he's asking to move to a private arrangement again as he earned more and the payments have increased. I haven't heard from him in many many months and kids don't see him (their choice). He's claiming that the payment is causing him financial hardship and I'm now feeling bad despite him being a high earner. Is there any benefit to moving to a private agreement? Would I be shooting myself in the foot if I agree to it? I worry as he has failed to show consistency to date... Thanks in advance!

Catsafterme · 09/10/2023 18:08

Apologies, I'm not a lone parent but I'm a father who pays CMS and I would say keep your arrangement in place. His financial hardships are not your concern and if you go into a private setup you are running the risk of him being inconsistent, lowering the payments or not paying at all.

What he needs to do is look at other aspects of his financial situation in order to sustain himself. For all you know he's spending money left right and center and or isn't hard up at all.

BananaSlug · 09/10/2023 18:10

Why would you? We went straight on to collect and pay also but that’s because my ex ignored every single letter from them, he is on benefits though so £7 per week. Not sure why you would in your situation?

Original poster

BLOOMINTIRED · 09/10/2023 18:20

@Catsafterme Thank you so much!!!

This actually made me cry a little! You've validated my concerns without me even putting the full details out there.

We were married nearly 20 years, I know his spending habits and as much as I try to be reasonable and sympathetic, I'm feeling like I'm being guilt tripped into moving away from Collect and Pay so he can avoid dealing with what the real issue is.

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Original poster

BLOOMINTIRED · 09/10/2023 18:26

BananaSlug · 09/10/2023 18:10

Why would you? We went straight on to collect and pay also but that’s because my ex ignored every single letter from them, he is on benefits though so £7 per week. Not sure why you would in your situation?

Because I spent the whole divorce being told I was being selfish and unreasonable and that "You've got everything you wanted!".

I'm so exhausted by it all...

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BananaSlug · 09/10/2023 18:31

I wouldn’t even speak to him, if the kids don’t see him then no reason to

Catsafterme · 09/10/2023 18:31

@BLOOMINTIRED No problem and sorry!

Well, obviously I don't know him but at the end of the day, to me, the money is for the children. I've also brought them into this world so I will support financially and they are the priority. However, a fair amount see it as a financial burden and I would imagine would try and guilt mothers into not having to pay at all or avoid at all costs.

So no, I think the sensible thing to do is stay firm because as I said it's not something you need to worry about. It's his responsibility to maintain and I would guess he could cut something else back but doesn't want to.

Zmasshoprace · 09/10/2023 18:33

So he doesn't see his kids and he would like you to do him a favour? Haha! I bet he would he knows full well..he has to pay more money because his earnings have increased.

Just say no, you're struggling and send him the price of kids trainers, clothes and activies! Why would you want to risk not getting a penny? You know CMS are useless I'm having to go to court as my ex has a private arrangement (I've no choice) but last year it was all abouve board so I'm assuming he's getting paid much more and doesn't want to pay me fairly.

Original poster

BLOOMINTIRED · 09/10/2023 18:48

Zmasshoprace · 09/10/2023 18:33

So he doesn't see his kids and he would like you to do him a favour? Haha! I bet he would he knows full well..he has to pay more money because his earnings have increased.

Just say no, you're struggling and send him the price of kids trainers, clothes and activies! Why would you want to risk not getting a penny? You know CMS are useless I'm having to go to court as my ex has a private arrangement (I've no choice) but last year it was all abouve board so I'm assuming he's getting paid much more and doesn't want to pay me fairly.

I'm so sorry you're having to go through that! It sounds very stressful.

He doesn't see them, he doesn't ask about them, he doesn't do anything to show that he wants to be in their life 🙄

Everything since the separation has been a real wake up call for me if I'm honest.

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Original poster

BLOOMINTIRED · 09/10/2023 18:50

@Catsafterme you're right!

I know if it was the other way around I'd be doing as much as I could to support them but I wouldn't have ruined my relationship with them in the first place!

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Catsafterme · 09/10/2023 18:58

@BLOOMINTIRED Yup it's shitty. I haven't been allowed to see or speak to mine in six months and I'm paying and currently trying to move mountains in order to see them again. Don't understand why others don't want to.

Nightlite888 · 09/10/2023 19:52

Stay on collect and pay. You never know what might happen in the future…
i have recently contacted CMS and been advised that I can’t go into collect and pay until 2 payments have been missed. This is in spite of document DA issues, including financial abuse. Stbx has underpaid for last 3 months and failed to pay this month. As I’ve just had it set up I can’t switch to collect and pay until he’s missed 2 payments. In the meantime I’m dealing with rising COL and buying school uniform clothes etc.

Original poster

BLOOMINTIRED · 09/10/2023 21:25

@Catsafterme that must be really difficult, I'm sorry you're having to deal with that.

I hope you get to see them again soon!

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Original poster

BLOOMINTIRED · 09/10/2023 21:29

Nightlite888 · 09/10/2023 19:52

Stay on collect and pay. You never know what might happen in the future…
i have recently contacted CMS and been advised that I can’t go into collect and pay until 2 payments have been missed. This is in spite of document DA issues, including financial abuse. Stbx has underpaid for last 3 months and failed to pay this month. As I’ve just had it set up I can’t switch to collect and pay until he’s missed 2 payments. In the meantime I’m dealing with rising COL and buying school uniform clothes etc.

This is true, I don't have a crystal ball!

I can't believe how useless CMS are with arrears, so many children missing out 😕

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Spinnymop · 09/10/2023 21:39

I've just been through similar. I got some brilliant advice on here and was told to look at it as the dc's money, and not mine. I also felt guilty but at the end of the day, the dc don't have a voice so you have to be theirs and fight for what they rightly deserve. If it was money he'd owed me, I'd glady write it off just to not have anything to do with him. But it belongs to the dc and is meant to improve their quality of life.

Ex told me that I'd ruined his life and that the cms were threatening him with prison for not paying. I held firm, and guess who has suddenly started making payments again 🙄

CharlotteBog · 09/10/2023 21:56

Did he refuse Direct Pay or miss lots of payments?

anonimoxyz · 09/10/2023 22:04

lol, financial hardship. Guessing you're spending your payments on champagne and caviar. I mean, he's paying which is more than my ex does (CMS are useless) but he doesn't provide for your kids through contact so why shouldn't he lose a small % of his income which is way less than what you lose of yours

Starlightstarbright2 · 09/10/2023 22:09

I wouldn’t even bother replying .

Wishitsnows · 09/10/2023 22:09

Don’t do a private arrangement. Sounds like he is probably going for that to avoid paying. This is the bare minimum amount he has to pay to ensure his kids are fed etc. he doesn’t even see them. He has already tried to lower it. Don’t feel bad about this sorry excuse for a father.

Original poster

BLOOMINTIRED · 09/10/2023 23:03

CharlotteBog · 09/10/2023 21:56

Did he refuse Direct Pay or miss lots of payments?

I have no idea if he refused, he went straight onto Collect and Pay so no missed payments as it comes out of his wages before he gets them.

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Original poster

BLOOMINTIRED · 09/10/2023 23:16

Spinnymop · 09/10/2023 21:39

I've just been through similar. I got some brilliant advice on here and was told to look at it as the dc's money, and not mine. I also felt guilty but at the end of the day, the dc don't have a voice so you have to be theirs and fight for what they rightly deserve. If it was money he'd owed me, I'd glady write it off just to not have anything to do with him. But it belongs to the dc and is meant to improve their quality of life.

Ex told me that I'd ruined his life and that the cms were threatening him with prison for not paying. I held firm, and guess who has suddenly started making payments again 🙄

Funny thing is that there's no bitterness between us, we were civil up until our youngest said she didn't want to do 50/50 anymore.

I let him know and suggested we come to an alternative agreement and then didn't hear from him again, he didn't respond to my mediation request and after 8 weeks of trying to contact him I finally gave up and put in the claim with the CMS... 10 days later I get contacted by a mediator, by which time the youngest had spilled all the beans and it took some time and effort to get her to agree to see him again, eldest happy to go along with whatever was decided.

I facilitated contact, I encouraged the kids to go but in the end they didn't want to keep seeing him and he disappeared again until the CM review 🙄

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CharlotteBog · 09/10/2023 23:47

BLOOMINTIRED · 09/10/2023 23:03

I have no idea if he refused, he went straight onto Collect and Pay so no missed payments as it comes out of his wages before he gets them.

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That seems quite odd. CMS much prefer Direct Pay, at least they did when I set it up a few years ago. I had started down the Collect and Pay process when (I think) ex realised his employer would become aware of him being reluctant to pay so then agreed to Direct Pay. CMS said I could move to Collect and Pay if he missed payments.

Anyway, I would't bother communicating with him. It's one less thing you need to discuss with him. As PPs have said, it's for the children.

BabyFireflyx · 10/10/2023 00:32

It does seem odd but do not okay this.
DD is 11 and because of missed payments stacking up over a thousand pounds back when it was CMA instead of CMS several years ago, I received a letter saying they were ready to write off his debt. I had to write a very detailed and emotional letter to stop them doing this. They approved my refusal. He now has two liability orders lodged via court for the debt he owes from all those years ago plus a second one for payments he's missed since. Almost £3000 in total.
I had to ask for collect and pay. He disappeared off the face of the earth almost 4 years ago when DD was 7. He's only recently having the bare minimum taken out of the benefits he claims. They can't go after him for the debt until he's off benefits, but the fucker goes into jobs, loses them and goes back on benefits every few months so it's a constant cycle of bullshit.
This isn’t even pay per view as neither the father of your kids or the father of my one are interested in seeing their children. They have a legal right to pay for their kids though.
I put the little I receive, few and far between into a savings account for DD. If you don’t need to use it, do that. This is money he owes to your children. There's no getting around that.

BabyFireflyx · 10/10/2023 00:37

Plus there is absolutely no need for you to interact with him. Until DD's father disappeared I was looking forward to having him out of my life and no need for contact when she turned 18. At least he's made that much easier for me.
Block him. There is nothing you need to discuss, as he is not involved with your kids. His finances are his own problem. There's nothing to gain by allowing him to be able to contact you. What's the worst he can do? He won't pay £200 to take you to court for access because he's not interested in that and he's already bitching about his money.
Leave it up to the system and breathe easily.

Original poster

BLOOMINTIRED · 10/10/2023 18:40

@BabyFireflyx I was really enjoying the peace and I genuinely thought he'd got in touch to try to restart contact / threaten to take me to court. 🙃

I should have known it was about money, it seems to be the only thing that makes him want to see the kids (the hope he'll get overnights again and reduce the CM!).

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pinkfondu · 11/10/2023 06:06

As someone who had to fight to get put into collect and pay, I wouldn't risk it. Once you've closed your case with them you will have to start again when he messes you about. And he will. This would be seen as a sigh you can be manipulated and guilt tripped.

I have also refused a similar request!